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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show

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it's a great one tonight I'm looking

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forward to it our guest tonight is John

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Green well jr. and I've been trying to

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get him on the show for a long time and

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finally alas he's on the show he'll be

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great to talk to him later on first of

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all we have Alejandro Rojas coming up

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with the news and before that I just

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want to say we have a new blog that

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actually ties in with tonight's show

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it's called FOIA is giving all our

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secrets away and that's by Charles Lear

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who writes blogs now for us about once a

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week actually he's been doing pretty

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steady for every week so check that out

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on podcast UFO comm I want to thank

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everyone that supports the show without

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your support we couldn't be doing this

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cost actually quite a bit to do the show

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and it's a gold-plated problem that's

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become fairly fairly popular had I had

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to get a dedicated server I use

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bandwidth before the show stuff like

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that so it's all really I'm very

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grateful to all the listeners out there

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and I want to thank you and for right

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now I'm going to bring in my one and

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only Alejandro Rojas buddy how you doing

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Ella hey doing pretty good how you doing

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great great so what is happening in the

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world of UFOs today yeah well you know

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what I just got late-breaking news I

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don't know much about this story yet but

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it's an interesting headline it's

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written by Tyler rogue away have you had

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him on I have and this yeah just to let

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the listener know this just happened

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while we just connected and you said hey

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I just this just came across the wire so

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to speak just popped up online right now

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exactly and it's exciting because Tyler

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tweeted earlier today and for people who

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don't remember he's a defense writer for

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this website called the drive it's kind

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of a time warner website and he writes

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particularly for the war zone so he

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writes about you know jets and and

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aerospace defense type of things and

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just recently at least in the last year

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or so

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he's also been posting some incredible

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UFO cases that he comes across in fact

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he's told me before that if someone in

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aerospace says they don't believe in

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UFOs are at least aren't interested I

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shouldn't say believe but aren't

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interested then they're lying he says

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that at least the interest is that

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pervasive throughout the community

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something I wasn't aware of course I

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knew many people were interested but

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earlier today he tweeted big post coming

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out today you will find that highly

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interesting if you're into mysterious

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facilities and secret aircraft and then

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he sent me a private message that said

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look close for hints in this so of

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course when I saw the original tweet I

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was already excited so that it she

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literally just must have hit Send on his

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Twitter right before the show started

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and here's a headline Vandenberg Air

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Force Base a space shuttle processing

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facility now has a very mysterious

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mission the bases old orbiter processing

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facility offers high security and

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isolation as well as ease of operation

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and access to vast sanitized

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airspace so there must be some sort of

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operation running out of here that he

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has a hint of that he's explaining here

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in the article haven't had a chance to

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read it

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but he's been very mysterious and

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telling us to you know take a look at

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this and so I'm excited to read it but

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people can find that on Twitter or if

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they follow my Twitter I've retweeted it

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but I'll put it on all of our social

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media out there and of course then you

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all can find it post it on the podcast

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UFO media as well mm-hmm so that's

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something interesting that just happened

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like breaking news otherwise there's a

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lot of news out there so we do have for

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the unidentified television show History

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Channel is running that's going to be

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covering a bit of a tip and it's gonna

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essentially it looks like Lou Elizondo

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is gonna be kind of that the main guy on

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it but of course what he's doing with to

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the stars is going to be in there and at

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least I've been able to have a look at

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some still photos and

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Steve justice it seems like we'll play a

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pretty big role in it as well and then

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of course Tom DeLonge will be in it

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somewhat but it doesn't seem like it's

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gonna be in and throughout the show but

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bits and pieces it's hard to say for

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sure but the show is gonna be starting

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on May 31st so that's the first time

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we've heard about this so late May that

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will come out also I did post another

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story called from a SAP to a tip and

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that's essentially a lot of people have

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been wondering including your guest

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today has been writing about this kind

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of how did it happen why are there two

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different names why did the New York

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Times cover one name what was the nature

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how did this transition happen what's

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going on here

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so I did write a story about it and I

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did interview Elizondo to try to clear

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these things up because this has been a

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big problem for me also I've been really

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confused about this and it really hasn't

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made sense to me now when I asked Lew

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about it he felt like he had met and

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talked so much about it that you know

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all of the info was out there but it was

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hard to piece it all together so at

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least I think me myself and many others

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were confused despite of what he had

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already posted outdoors talked about at

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symposiums or different talks so the

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gist of it is and George Knapp at least

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my interview gave me some of this but it

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ostap the advanced aerospace weapon

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system application program was the

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beginning so the New York Times touched

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on this a bit and I'll have an article

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really laying all this out more for the

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layman who is not up to speed on all of

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this on den of geek later this week but

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uh a dia agent read skinwalker the

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skinwalker book said I want to go to

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skinwalker right

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we know this turd George Knapp and the

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New York Times hinted at it they said

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the New York Times said the DIA official

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was going to meet Bigelow at his ranch

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where he did research what they did not

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mention of course is what this ranch was

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where this ranch was and the

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significance of this ranch what we know

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of course about this ranch is that it's

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skinwalker ranch where a lot of

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craziness has happened so this guy goes

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out there he has his own personal

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variance that is supposedly remarkable

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now the name of the person who went out

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there and they've kept anonymous and

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they haven't given details about what

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happened but the New York Times article

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said after this guy met Bigelow then

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some dia officials went to Senator Reid

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and said we want to start a research

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program and this is kind of how this all

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started however what we've heard from

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from Knapp and others is that Asif was

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looking primarily into skinwalker ranch

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and of course skin Walker has UFO stuff

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attached to it we've seen some of that

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in the book but also in Jeremy corbels

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documentary about the skinwalker so what

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happened was essentially as soon after

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asset began and they were looking into

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these paranormal issues of which were

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really weird I mean George Knapp

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released a statement by a manager with

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bass who outlined some really weird

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stuff that they were looking into but

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people got wind of this and they didn't

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like it inside the DIA essentially

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George has talked about this Lou has

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talked about this that there were these

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religious factions who felt that this

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was demonic and that we shouldn't be

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messing with it so they sought to take

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the program down at this time seeing the

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writing on the wall they should they

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pulled out they made a subgroup within a

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a SAP that was just military UFO cases

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and that was a tip when Lou came on he

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just worked on a tip and then eventually

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they were right ah sap was taken down it

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was just too controversial for the

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people inside the DIA but fortunately

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they had pulled out the UFO program and

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for this reason to save it and that

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continued Lou then took that over in

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2010 and a tip continued and and

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allegedly continues to this day this is

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information though that Lou gave me

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that's kind of interesting a tip no

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longer has the same name why a bit of a

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similar reason ah SAP moved to a tip

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that a tip is getting too much attention

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so in order to keep this new program you

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know discreet and to keep eyes off of

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what they're doing they changed the name

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Lou doesn't even know the name no

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you want to know the name essentially

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because they're keeping it secret so but

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he does know who's involved essentially

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who his predecessor is and that this

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work is still going on well well and

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that's essentially that yep one pardon I

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didn't mean to interrupt you of the one

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no problem um what about the funding

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because that you know that supposedly

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had ceased it is a good point

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well there's a number of things when it

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comes to the funding first of all the

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funding was for OSAP that went from 2007

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to 2012 of course a tip was a part of ah

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SAP so a tip received some of that

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funding that division essentially of a

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SAP otherwise after 2012 Lew has

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received at least mentioned at a MUFON

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symposium that he received other funding

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in a joint IC project what that often

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means is that some group received

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funding and that the mission of this

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project they received funding for was

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similar to what a tip was doing so they

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were able to work together on it and

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eight have got some data from that what

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lewis also said is similar things have

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happened in the past where they were

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able to get data from like you know he

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gave the example of satellites looking

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for nukes coming out of or missiles

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coming out of North Korea well if they

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got anything that fit certain parameters

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that a tip was looking for then they

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were able to get some data for that so

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essentially they've kind of gone around

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and asked for data from other programs

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that might have data for sort of things

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they were looking for in fact there's a

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guy Philippe from France who did a great

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presentation at the SU and Alabama and

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he was showing us how they're all of

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these satellites that are out there are

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collecting data and a lot of this data

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is going into these major databases so

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if we could create partnerships with

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some of these these satellite creators

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and these for access to these databases

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it would be something that UFO groups

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should do because then we'd be able to

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say hey we have this great sighting here

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go to these databases and get satellite

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imagery from that area and see if we see

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whatever it was the witnesses saw

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nobody's kind of doing

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yet but that was the gist of his

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00:11:35,749 --> 00:11:33,689
presentation to show but there's a lot

274
00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:35,759
of data out there so certainly that's a

275
00:11:41,749 --> 00:11:38,220
similar sort of thing apparently that

276
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:41,759
they did within a tip I see hey by the

277
00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:45,569
way y'all some astute person in and on

278
00:11:53,809 --> 00:11:48,240
YouTube was asking where you're floating

279
00:11:56,269 --> 00:11:53,819
UFO went did you sell it I know know

280
00:11:58,669 --> 00:11:56,279
what we did and what happened was

281
00:12:01,400 --> 00:11:58,679
essentially okay that's so funny the

282
00:12:05,210 --> 00:12:01,410
people asked whatever broke for a

283
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:05,220
customer you mean last head crash that

284
00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:07,410
was the last one we had was my sample so

285
00:12:13,009 --> 00:12:10,740
I had to send him my my personal one

286
00:12:15,109 --> 00:12:13,019
that I had been using so to replace

287
00:12:17,210 --> 00:12:15,119
their broken one because you know but we

288
00:12:20,239 --> 00:12:17,220
are getting a new batch of those in like

289
00:12:22,189 --> 00:12:20,249
tomorrow so they fly they go really fast

290
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:22,199
all we got was five silver and five gray

291
00:12:25,549 --> 00:12:23,730
so they're probably gonna sell out

292
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:25,559
within the next week so if you want one

293
00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:29,850
go to the UFO congress.com store and get

294
00:12:33,470 --> 00:12:31,889
it as soon as possible we do have them

295
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:33,480
up for pre-sale because they're gonna go

296
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:35,730
quickly you might have one more you may

297
00:12:41,539 --> 00:12:37,410
fly off the shelves they don't actually

298
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:41,549
fly they just a good way to put it yeah

299
00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:43,920
one last thing I think is interesting is

300
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:45,350
the New York Times part because

301
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:47,970
essentially well why didn't the New York

302
00:12:52,579 --> 00:12:50,490
Times use the term map essentially Lou

303
00:12:54,739 --> 00:12:52,589
said I didn't work for us up I worked

304
00:12:56,869 --> 00:12:54,749
for a tip they never asked me about a

305
00:12:58,639 --> 00:12:56,879
set for the paranormal it wasn't my

306
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,649
place to even talk about that so I

307
00:13:01,999 --> 00:13:00,720
didn't and you will see that there's a

308
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:02,009
lot of things that Lou doesn't talk

309
00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:04,170
about until that information is leaked

310
00:13:09,259 --> 00:13:06,779
by a third party typically that's George

311
00:13:11,090 --> 00:13:09,269
Knapp once the information gets out

312
00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:11,100
there then he's able to share it and

313
00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:13,860
George Knapp a lot of what it seems he's

314
00:13:17,809 --> 00:13:15,720
got and he says he's gotten from DC and

315
00:13:19,639 --> 00:13:17,819
it seems like you know this is an

316
00:13:22,429 --> 00:13:19,649
assumption but I'm guessing he's getting

317
00:13:24,439 --> 00:13:22,439
that from read or reads office something

318
00:13:27,109 --> 00:13:24,449
like that but I can't say for sure I

319
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:27,119
don't know he has not explicitly said

320
00:13:32,119 --> 00:13:30,240
that huh about that well yeah so there's

321
00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:32,129
some background there otherwise you I

322
00:13:36,049 --> 00:13:33,929
will review just a couple real quick

323
00:13:37,369 --> 00:13:36,059
stories you bet just that there's a

324
00:13:40,970 --> 00:13:37,379
couple good things out there there's an

325
00:13:43,340 --> 00:13:40,980
article in the Star Tribune about why

326
00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:43,350
scientists are starting to listen to UFO

327
00:13:47,180 --> 00:13:45,030
and we're starting to see a lot of

328
00:13:48,950 --> 00:13:47,190
stories along these lines and

329
00:13:50,990 --> 00:13:48,960
essentially they're reviewing MUFON

330
00:13:52,910 --> 00:13:51,000
their removal reviewing the Pentagon

331
00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:52,920
program and talking about hey some of

332
00:13:54,860 --> 00:13:54,300
these guys are more credible than we

333
00:13:57,410 --> 00:13:54,870
thought

334
00:13:59,690 --> 00:13:57,420
also the Detroit Free Press covered the

335
00:14:02,390 --> 00:13:59,700
Bob Lazar documentary that's kind of

336
00:14:04,190 --> 00:14:02,400
getting a renewed interest which is kind

337
00:14:11,150 --> 00:14:04,200
of interesting I know it's going to be

338
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:11,160
in a in a Film Festival here soon and

339
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:13,410
then this is the last one I'll cover it

340
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:15,050
otherwise the other stuff is kind of

341
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:18,000
similar to what we've seen before but

342
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:21,450
well two things first of all UFO fun

343
00:14:25,940 --> 00:14:23,910
shuns little green men to by satellites

344
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:25,950
and rockets so you're going to see the

345
00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:29,850
the ticker symbol UFO now when you're

346
00:14:34,130 --> 00:14:31,470
looking at you know these different

347
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:34,140
markets but unfortunately it's not a UFO

348
00:14:39,140 --> 00:14:36,570
company that has taken that it's an

349
00:14:41,780 --> 00:14:39,150
actual UFO fund that is funding

350
00:14:43,970 --> 00:14:41,790
satellites and rockets and space

351
00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:43,980
programs but yeah now on the stock

352
00:14:48,530 --> 00:14:45,510
exchange sticker you're gonna see that

353
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,540
the UFO symbol and that's what it is the

354
00:14:53,060 --> 00:14:49,920
other thing is that there was a really

355
00:14:55,580 --> 00:14:53,070
interesting meeting by the and there was

356
00:14:58,520 --> 00:14:55,590
a Senate hearing on the space force and

357
00:15:00,440 --> 00:14:58,530
senator Blumenthal had some really odd

358
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:00,450
things to say we've got links to all of

359
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:02,580
this at open minds TV right on the front

360
00:15:07,490 --> 00:15:05,610
page but he said that there there's some

361
00:15:10,460 --> 00:15:07,500
scary stuff essentially going on in

362
00:15:13,490 --> 00:15:10,470
space that our adversaries know that we

363
00:15:16,130 --> 00:15:13,500
know about this we discuss this and

364
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:16,140
classified meetings but the public has

365
00:15:21,370 --> 00:15:19,680
no idea so the public has no context for

366
00:15:24,830 --> 00:15:21,380
these conversations that we're having

367
00:15:27,230 --> 00:15:24,840
about security and space and we really

368
00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:27,240
need to let the public in on what's

369
00:15:35,510 --> 00:15:30,150
happening here and the threats from

370
00:15:37,190 --> 00:15:35,520
space really odd verbage and it's kind

371
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:37,200
of scary really of course a lot of the

372
00:15:40,190 --> 00:15:38,610
UFO people are thinking oh he's got to

373
00:15:42,170 --> 00:15:40,200
be talking about UFOs and aliens and

374
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:42,180
stuff like that we don't know that for

375
00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:45,210
sure he did say adversaries but yeah

376
00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:47,580
some very interesting verbage that he

377
00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:51,720
used in this video as well Klingon yeah

378
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:53,100
all right yep

379
00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:55,170
the Klingons alright man thanks so much

380
00:15:58,940 --> 00:15:57,180
all right thank you have

381
00:16:01,940 --> 00:15:58,950
good show okay I'll talk to you next

382
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:01,950
week talk to you later all right so our

383
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:06,450
guest our guest to this evening is John

384
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:09,510
Greenwald jr. and I met him out in

385
00:16:15,050 --> 00:16:13,680
Phoenix oh I would say it was was I

386
00:16:16,490 --> 00:16:15,060
think it was two years ago

387
00:16:19,790 --> 00:16:16,500
I'll ask him because I can't remember

388
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:19,800
something like that because one year I

389
00:16:23,210 --> 00:16:21,390
got stuck in a snowstorm never made it

390
00:16:24,740 --> 00:16:23,220
out there but I think it was about two

391
00:16:27,260 --> 00:16:24,750
years ago anyway I've been trying to get

392
00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:27,270
him on the show almost since day one we

393
00:16:32,270 --> 00:16:29,910
finally connected and here he is he's

394
00:16:35,470 --> 00:16:32,280
been actually he's been actually looking

395
00:16:39,830 --> 00:16:35,480
at this topic and and doing active work

396
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,840
since he was 15 years old and here he is

397
00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:42,000
John Greenwald how are you welcome to

398
00:16:45,470 --> 00:16:44,100
the show I'm good yeah thanks for having

399
00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:45,480
me I really appreciate it's good to be

400
00:16:49,340 --> 00:16:47,070
here I'm glad we finally met up I know

401
00:16:51,830 --> 00:16:49,350
it's been a long time so I appreciate

402
00:16:54,890 --> 00:16:51,840
your patience on that yep

403
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:54,900
well I always thought that I'd like to

404
00:17:00,650 --> 00:16:57,600
have you on and you know right off the

405
00:17:04,120 --> 00:17:00,660
bat I want to say that I have told you

406
00:17:06,860 --> 00:17:04,130
this in person but when I talked to Stan

407
00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:06,870
Friedman you know several years ago I

408
00:17:10,790 --> 00:17:09,270
said who's the next Stan Freeman and he

409
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,800
didn't even hesitate he mentioned your

410
00:17:15,380 --> 00:17:12,720
name he said and those are big shoes to

411
00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:15,390
fill so those are big shoes to fill yeah

412
00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:16,710
it's such an honor for someone like him

413
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:18,960
to say that I don't know if I quite live

414
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:21,600
up to that but I do appreciate him him

415
00:17:26,930 --> 00:17:24,720
saying that for sure yeah can you give I

416
00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:26,940
just mentioned you started you know

417
00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:29,190
doing this work at such a young age and

418
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:31,710
I think that is just amazing and I'm

419
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:34,170
hoping that more people that are you

420
00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:36,210
know young people do get involved into

421
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:37,380
some a little worried about I want to go

422
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:39,360
to some of the conference's as you know

423
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:41,130
there's a lot of gray hair like mine out

424
00:17:46,850 --> 00:17:44,130
there yeah he was a lot more on my head

425
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:46,860
too coming around I blame the kids Yeah

426
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:49,770
right right that's right so can you um

427
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:51,600
you know tell the listening audience

428
00:17:56,780 --> 00:17:54,690
your basically your background and sure

429
00:18:00,290 --> 00:17:56,790
what got you started in this whole

430
00:18:02,510 --> 00:18:00,300
interest anyway yeah I I wish I had a

431
00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:02,520
better story to tell other than I was

432
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:06,780
just curious I was 15 years old and I

433
00:18:11,180 --> 00:18:08,910
was back in 1996 I was a sophomore in

434
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:11,190
high school and as a sophomore

435
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:12,090
you know you're supposed to be studying

436
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:15,090
in school and and not writing letters to

437
00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:17,610
the government and researching UFOs but

438
00:18:22,940 --> 00:18:20,220
I found myself fascinated by the UFO

439
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:22,950
topic now at the time Google wasn't

440
00:18:26,210 --> 00:18:24,480
really a thing nowadays we say well

441
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:26,220
we're gonna go Google something Alta

442
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:29,370
Vista was the search engine a man IRA

443
00:18:34,010 --> 00:18:31,440
so those longtime Internet users will

444
00:18:35,870 --> 00:18:34,020
remember that and so I used Alta Vista

445
00:18:38,030 --> 00:18:35,880
search UFO even then you would get

446
00:18:40,130 --> 00:18:38,040
hundreds of thousands of webpages now

447
00:18:42,590 --> 00:18:40,140
it's like eight or ten million yeah and

448
00:18:45,020 --> 00:18:42,600
so you know there's an incredible amount

449
00:18:47,810 --> 00:18:45,030
of information so my curiosity was met

450
00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:47,820
with just a lot of stuff and it's like

451
00:18:52,910 --> 00:18:49,500
how do you make sense of it we have that

452
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:52,920
problem in 2019 but in 1996 I thought

453
00:18:56,660 --> 00:18:55,290
okay you know what what what do we

454
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,670
believe what do we not believe you'd

455
00:18:59,720 --> 00:18:58,320
read the same story but see different

456
00:19:02,240 --> 00:18:59,730
versions of it and then it was like well

457
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:02,250
who do you want to believe and so I made

458
00:19:06,740 --> 00:19:04,500
kind of what I considered the stupidest

459
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:06,750
decision of my life but it turned out to

460
00:19:11,060 --> 00:19:09,120
be the best decision I ever made and I

461
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:11,070
honestly thought to myself at the age of

462
00:19:15,260 --> 00:19:13,410
15 that if there was anybody or anything

463
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:15,270
that was going to be honest about UFOs

464
00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:17,130
it would be the United States government

465
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:19,710
and I and I thought that and I learned

466
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:21,330
about the Freedom of Information Act and

467
00:19:24,650 --> 00:19:22,650
I thought okay let's just go after

468
00:19:27,290 --> 00:19:24,660
documents and see what's there and

469
00:19:28,820 --> 00:19:27,300
that's what I did I mean I I learned

470
00:19:32,810 --> 00:19:28,830
about the Freedom of Information Act

471
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:32,820
taught myself how to use it filed a one

472
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:35,760
request was my original back in 1996 was

473
00:19:40,790 --> 00:19:39,120
for the 1976 Iran incident document not

474
00:19:42,530 --> 00:19:40,800
not something I claimed to a frown this

475
00:19:45,740 --> 00:19:42,540
has been written about for many many

476
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:45,750
years prior to me but I read about it

477
00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:47,370
and I thought there's no way that this

478
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:49,470
is real there's there's absolutely no

479
00:19:55,850 --> 00:19:53,280
way and so I filed that FOIA request and

480
00:19:58,430 --> 00:19:55,860
sure enough got the four-page document

481
00:20:00,830 --> 00:19:58,440
word-for-word it was exactly what I had

482
00:20:03,380 --> 00:20:00,840
read it to be which honestly looked like

483
00:20:06,860 --> 00:20:03,390
it came out of an x-files episode let

484
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:06,870
alone a US government agency and so that

485
00:20:12,650 --> 00:20:08,940
was it I was hooked I I mean I literally

486
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:12,660
started filing FOIA requests five 10 20

487
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:15,840
even 40 50 at a time where I would just

488
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:18,570
you know push them out there looking for

489
00:20:23,389 --> 00:20:21,090
documents before no one can I just ask

490
00:20:26,959 --> 00:20:23,399
you sure because I I had

491
00:20:29,209 --> 00:20:26,969
hurt about for you yeah like maybe ten

492
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:29,219
years ago or something and not about

493
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:31,710
UFOs but something else how did you know

494
00:20:36,649 --> 00:20:34,799
that at at that age did yeah it was

495
00:20:38,810 --> 00:20:36,659
literally something I read on the

496
00:20:40,879 --> 00:20:38,820
internet and it was the the only

497
00:20:44,479 --> 00:20:40,889
document that they really had profiled

498
00:20:46,369 --> 00:20:44,489
was the 1976 Iran incident document and

499
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:46,379
they said if if you don't believe that

500
00:20:49,399 --> 00:20:48,210
this is legitimate you can use this

501
00:20:52,430 --> 00:20:49,409
thing called the Freedom of Information

502
00:20:53,959 --> 00:20:52,440
Act and I thought well you know what is

503
00:20:55,729 --> 00:20:53,969
that I was like you I'm like I've never

504
00:20:57,469 --> 00:20:55,739
heard of that but hey if they're gonna

505
00:21:00,079 --> 00:20:57,479
send me something for free why not and

506
00:21:01,609 --> 00:21:00,089
and how the law is written there is a

507
00:21:02,769 --> 00:21:01,619
lot you can get for free but there's

508
00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:02,779
also a lot you might have to pay for

509
00:21:07,609 --> 00:21:05,190
that's a long story in itself but that's

510
00:21:09,349 --> 00:21:07,619
that's the nutshell and so that was how

511
00:21:10,729 --> 00:21:09,359
I learned about it and honestly I was

512
00:21:13,579 --> 00:21:10,739
filing Freedom of Information Act

513
00:21:15,619 --> 00:21:13,589
requests before I really understood how

514
00:21:17,869 --> 00:21:15,629
to use it now there's the basic

515
00:21:20,509 --> 00:21:17,879
fundamentals of it and and that's you

516
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:20,519
know the in a nutshell you request

517
00:21:24,139 --> 00:21:22,320
information you should get it unless it

518
00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:24,149
fits into nine exemption categories boom

519
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:26,609
boom cut and dry unfortunately doesn't

520
00:21:31,129 --> 00:21:28,799
quite work that way but that's the basic

521
00:21:33,709 --> 00:21:31,139
principle of it so I was filing FOIA

522
00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:33,719
requests not really understanding the

523
00:21:38,629 --> 00:21:35,580
type of games that the government would

524
00:21:40,779 --> 00:21:38,639
play back and as a fifteen-year-old kid

525
00:21:43,579 --> 00:21:40,789
I had to learn very quickly that

526
00:21:45,769 --> 00:21:43,589
agencies like the CIA and the NSA and

527
00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:45,779
the FBI they didn't want to hear from me

528
00:21:52,129 --> 00:21:47,849
even though I was exercising my right

529
00:21:54,619 --> 00:21:52,139
they wanted me to go away and you know

530
00:21:56,810 --> 00:21:54,629
here we are 22 years later I've

531
00:21:59,180 --> 00:21:56,820
collected about two million pages on the

532
00:22:01,549 --> 00:21:59,190
black vault comm now and it's something

533
00:22:03,499 --> 00:22:01,559
that I probably won't stop anytime soon

534
00:22:06,139 --> 00:22:03,509
Wow you know I was just talking up

535
00:22:09,349 --> 00:22:06,149
during the you know during the monologue

536
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:09,359
how you know the this show cost me money

537
00:22:15,249 --> 00:22:12,089
you know with bandwidth you know just

538
00:22:19,969 --> 00:22:15,259
from from people listening to my podcast

539
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:19,979
so this your website has to cost you

540
00:22:27,499 --> 00:22:24,330
money with all that yeah it's a lot the

541
00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:27,509
website itself is I mean I I've got it

542
00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:29,700
across a couple dedicated servers that

543
00:22:34,909 --> 00:22:32,849
are just for the black ball yeah and

544
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:34,919
there's there's a quite a few hundred

545
00:22:39,499 --> 00:22:37,200
gigabytes of data alone

546
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:39,509
the bandwidth is in the terabytes that

547
00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:42,330
gets downloaded every month you the

548
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,820
unique people like the unique visitors

549
00:22:48,739 --> 00:22:46,559
not hits because people over inflate

550
00:22:50,450 --> 00:22:48,749
hits but the actual people that sit down

551
00:22:53,830 --> 00:22:50,460
and log on to the black vault is about

552
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:53,840
15 to 20 thousand people every 24 hours

553
00:22:59,119 --> 00:22:57,210
and you know they generate literally a

554
00:23:01,609 --> 00:22:59,129
half a million to a million hits per day

555
00:23:04,639 --> 00:23:01,619
on the web server so it is an incredibly

556
00:23:06,349 --> 00:23:04,649
busy box of people downloading not only

557
00:23:08,389 --> 00:23:06,359
UFO information but I mean you name a

558
00:23:10,279 --> 00:23:08,399
government secret I've probably gone

559
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:10,289
after it and one way or the other

560
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:14,220
yeah does the does the space support

561
00:23:18,859 --> 00:23:17,070
itself I mean with all that sadly

562
00:23:21,619 --> 00:23:18,869
there's not a whole lot of money and

563
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:21,629
giving information away that the site is

564
00:23:27,109 --> 00:23:24,960
free and I'm proud of that that you know

565
00:23:28,279 --> 00:23:27,119
that it doesn't cost you a thing as with

566
00:23:30,289 --> 00:23:28,289
most internet websites there's

567
00:23:32,239 --> 00:23:30,299
advertisements but sadly you don't make

568
00:23:34,099 --> 00:23:32,249
a whole lot of money from that yeah if

569
00:23:37,009 --> 00:23:34,109
the industry was the same as it was 20

570
00:23:38,659 --> 00:23:37,019
years ago I'd be retired but the

571
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:38,669
industry's not the same anymore and what

572
00:23:43,249 --> 00:23:40,529
I mean by that is advertising on the

573
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:43,259
internet was a lot more beneficial 20

574
00:23:47,509 --> 00:23:45,090
years ago for for people that had a lot

575
00:23:49,339 --> 00:23:47,519
of web traffic but for everyday and this

576
00:23:51,710 --> 00:23:49,349
is this is pretty much accurate for

577
00:23:53,930 --> 00:23:51,720
every dollar you would make 20 years ago

578
00:23:56,139 --> 00:23:53,940
you're lucky if you make a tenth of a

579
00:23:58,519 --> 00:23:56,149
penny now literally I mean it is

580
00:24:02,299 --> 00:23:58,529
drastically different so very variable

581
00:24:05,389 --> 00:24:02,309
yeah but so this this is a work of

582
00:24:07,339 --> 00:24:05,399
passion there's no other there's no

583
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:07,349
other word for it that I can that I can

584
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:09,840
think of because you're definitely not

585
00:24:16,099 --> 00:24:13,049
doing it to make money and it's such a

586
00:24:18,889 --> 00:24:16,109
great service to have this out there and

587
00:24:20,629 --> 00:24:18,899
I want to personally thank you for you

588
00:24:23,239 --> 00:24:20,639
know letting these things be available

589
00:24:24,979 --> 00:24:23,249
and and you know and it's funny I

590
00:24:27,379 --> 00:24:24,989
understand that also a lot of times

591
00:24:31,519 --> 00:24:27,389
people will stumble on your site and

592
00:24:32,839 --> 00:24:31,529
think that this is fresh and new and you

593
00:24:34,669 --> 00:24:32,849
know things that have been out for a

594
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:34,679
long long time but you have stored them

595
00:24:38,719 --> 00:24:37,440
on on this in this database that's great

596
00:24:40,639 --> 00:24:38,729
yeah yeah yeah

597
00:24:42,409 --> 00:24:40,649
thank you yeah I appreciate that I was

598
00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:42,419
reading in your book where you said that

599
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:44,849
you had some information I think it was

600
00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:48,720
up like a thousand pages or something

601
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:50,460
that all of a sudden and went viral

602
00:24:54,110 --> 00:24:52,170
and you didn't expect it to happen and

603
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:54,120
then you were on The Today Show and a

604
00:24:57,890 --> 00:24:55,650
few other shows things like that yeah

605
00:24:59,630 --> 00:24:57,900
yeah things happen all the time that are

606
00:25:02,900 --> 00:24:59,640
just unexpected I mean even last

607
00:25:04,790 --> 00:25:02,910
December I got not a UFO story but it

608
00:25:07,910 --> 00:25:04,800
was documents that I literally fought

609
00:25:09,650 --> 00:25:07,920
years for when it came to getting them

610
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:09,660
under the Freedom of Information Act and

611
00:25:14,540 --> 00:25:11,850
it really showed me the lengths that

612
00:25:16,910 --> 00:25:14,550
government agencies will go to and this

613
00:25:19,670 --> 00:25:16,920
specific case was the CIA to hide

614
00:25:22,340 --> 00:25:19,680
information and what I've learned in 22

615
00:25:24,530 --> 00:25:22,350
years is you have to look at how they

616
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:24,540
deal with other topics to kind of

617
00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:27,600
understand UFOs and vice versa and you

618
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:30,270
can learn a lot as you intermingle your

619
00:25:35,570 --> 00:25:33,090
research and multiple topics versus just

620
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:35,580
focusing on one because it's very easy

621
00:25:40,460 --> 00:25:37,530
to kind of fall into a pigeonhole of

622
00:25:43,340 --> 00:25:40,470
just assuming that you know what they're

623
00:25:46,490 --> 00:25:43,350
going to do about a particular topic for

624
00:25:48,050 --> 00:25:46,500
me and learn on how the different

625
00:25:50,110 --> 00:25:48,060
government agencies and and again

626
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:50,120
specifically the CIA in this example

627
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:52,740
operate and in this particular one

628
00:25:58,430 --> 00:25:55,440
they literally bold-faced told me

629
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:58,440
something that was not true I have it in

630
00:26:02,570 --> 00:26:00,480
writing I have it on the telephone I

631
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:02,580
didn't record it but I'm not allowed in

632
00:26:06,650 --> 00:26:04,290
the state of California so for the CIA

633
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:06,660
guys that are listening I didn't record

634
00:26:10,460 --> 00:26:08,340
it but it is in writing where they would

635
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:10,470
tell me one thing and the documentation

636
00:26:14,570 --> 00:26:13,050
totally proved another and for me at the

637
00:26:16,940 --> 00:26:14,580
end of the day it showed me that they

638
00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:16,950
were trying to make me go away they

639
00:26:20,450 --> 00:26:18,870
never thought that I would raise money

640
00:26:22,340 --> 00:26:20,460
in the tune of four or five hundred

641
00:26:23,450 --> 00:26:22,350
dollars doesn't sound like a lot but it

642
00:26:25,820 --> 00:26:23,460
adds up with the Freedom of Information

643
00:26:26,810 --> 00:26:25,830
Act they're doing you know thousands of

644
00:26:28,490 --> 00:26:26,820
requests mm-hmm

645
00:26:30,740 --> 00:26:28,500
so I don't think they thought it would

646
00:26:33,410 --> 00:26:30,750
get the popularity that it did and

647
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:33,420
Newsweek covered it vice news covered it

648
00:26:36,650 --> 00:26:35,130
before I ever even got the documents

649
00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:36,660
they saw what the CIA was doing about

650
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:40,020
mind control and I crowdfunded the

651
00:26:47,030 --> 00:26:43,410
entire the entire amount in like 48

652
00:26:49,970 --> 00:26:47,040
hours and wrote them the check and they

653
00:26:51,890 --> 00:26:49,980
continued playing games for months and

654
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:51,900
months but I finally got the documents

655
00:26:57,020 --> 00:26:54,410
last late November early December and

656
00:26:58,820 --> 00:26:57,030
posted them all and it's amazing to see

657
00:27:00,680 --> 00:26:58,830
but I think it's an important thing to

658
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:00,690
look at again to understand the lengths

659
00:27:04,370 --> 00:27:02,640
that these intelligence agencies these

660
00:27:06,590 --> 00:27:04,380
government agencies will go to

661
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:06,600
to cover up things right well we're

662
00:27:11,419 --> 00:27:09,210
right at our break so everyone that's

663
00:27:14,590 --> 00:27:11,429
listening please a hang in there we'll

664
00:27:17,779 --> 00:27:14,600
be right back right after these messages

665
00:27:20,779 --> 00:27:17,789
all right welcome back my guest is John

666
00:27:22,909 --> 00:27:20,789
Greenwald jr. and we were just we just

667
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:22,919
left off he was talking about the

668
00:27:28,010 --> 00:27:25,710
government actually did a bold-faced lie

669
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:28,020
and of the documents he was talking

670
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:32,130
about was mind control but John so when

671
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:35,130
I was reading a book and in part in

672
00:27:38,779 --> 00:27:36,720
there that I got kind of a kick out of

673
00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:38,789
that you have a lot of evidently I think

674
00:27:41,890 --> 00:27:39,870
you wrote somewhere in there you have a

675
00:27:45,620 --> 00:27:41,900
lot of evidence that government does lie

676
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:45,630
yeah and with all these documents all

677
00:27:50,210 --> 00:27:48,090
right are you seeing this like is this

678
00:27:53,870 --> 00:27:50,220
their mo I mean is it does it happen

679
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:53,880
repeatedly sadly it happens repeatedly

680
00:27:57,770 --> 00:27:56,010
for many years I did try and stay away

681
00:27:59,779 --> 00:27:57,780
from the l word I tried to stop making

682
00:28:01,399 --> 00:27:59,789
the accusation and hey the government is

683
00:28:03,470 --> 00:28:01,409
lying to you you know don't listen to

684
00:28:05,299 --> 00:28:03,480
them and I don't want to start doing

685
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:05,309
that now but what I will say is you

686
00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:08,210
can't not say that they are they are

687
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:11,220
obviously misleading and I think even by

688
00:28:17,450 --> 00:28:14,640
their own admission Roswell is a prime

689
00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:17,460
example of that and when you look at the

690
00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:19,470
different stories that have come out

691
00:28:24,409 --> 00:28:22,200
it's clear that they were trying to give

692
00:28:27,140 --> 00:28:24,419
a false narrative to the general public

693
00:28:28,730 --> 00:28:27,150
and they changed their story not once

694
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:28,740
not twice not three times but actually

695
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:31,289
four different times on various versions

696
00:28:37,460 --> 00:28:34,559
of their story all the way through their

697
00:28:40,460 --> 00:28:37,470
project mogul and test dummies and so on

698
00:28:43,130 --> 00:28:40,470
and so forth for me that that to me

699
00:28:45,409 --> 00:28:43,140
shows that there is a is it malicious

700
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:45,419
I'm not sure but there is an intent to

701
00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:47,820
mislead the public just with the basic

702
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:50,940
fundamentals of the UFO topic and those

703
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:54,000
basic fundamentals are including of

704
00:28:59,240 --> 00:28:56,730
Roswell in those early days of Project

705
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:59,250
Blue Book and what happened so even

706
00:29:02,990 --> 00:29:00,240
though I don't want to say again they're

707
00:29:05,450 --> 00:29:03,000
lying to you you can't get away from the

708
00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:05,460
fact there is something going on here

709
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:08,820
that they have been caught misleading

710
00:29:12,919 --> 00:29:10,770
the public and to be honest with you

711
00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:12,929
their current explanations and this was

712
00:29:18,180 --> 00:29:14,429
the intent at the beginning of the book

713
00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:18,190
the intent was to

714
00:29:22,590 --> 00:29:20,470
mislead the public but the but the

715
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:22,600
versions that they were using did not

716
00:29:27,930 --> 00:29:25,600
make sense they did not hold up you can

717
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:27,940
fact check even their latest version and

718
00:29:32,940 --> 00:29:30,490
it is full of holes right there better

719
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:32,950
serve to just let it go right stop

720
00:29:36,090 --> 00:29:33,970
talking about it

721
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:36,100
let kooky people like me try and

722
00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:39,070
research it but stop trying to add to

723
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:42,340
the story because by them doing that in

724
00:29:48,390 --> 00:29:45,610
my opinion it adds so much more mud to

725
00:29:50,670 --> 00:29:48,400
the water but but on the side that they

726
00:29:53,250 --> 00:29:50,680
are absolutely lying and that there is

727
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:53,260
much more to just the Roswell story than

728
00:29:57,030 --> 00:29:55,120
they want us to know we can assume that

729
00:29:58,890 --> 00:29:57,040
but when you look at the actual evidence

730
00:30:00,300 --> 00:29:58,900
you can put it in hardcore writing

731
00:30:02,580 --> 00:30:00,310
that's exactly what's going on they're

732
00:30:05,490 --> 00:30:02,590
trying to mislead what exactly are they

733
00:30:07,470 --> 00:30:05,500
misleading about I'm not real sure but

734
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:07,480
in the book I try to show you hey look

735
00:30:11,670 --> 00:30:09,310
some of these most plausible

736
00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:11,680
explanations they can't be true yeah you

737
00:30:15,810 --> 00:30:13,390
know I've said this a number of time

738
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:15,820
probably times on the show maybe the

739
00:30:21,690 --> 00:30:17,530
listeners might get sick me saying it

740
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:21,700
but if there was no if nothing happened

741
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:26,080
at Roswell first of all for the Army Air

742
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:27,610
Force to say that they found a crash

743
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:29,770
disk all they had to do is say nothing

744
00:30:34,410 --> 00:30:32,890
never yeah say anything about it at all

745
00:30:37,890 --> 00:30:34,420
and I think that is a that's a big

746
00:30:39,330 --> 00:30:37,900
puzzle to me why they even came out with

747
00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:39,340
that in the first place I mean it

748
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:40,600
doesn't really make any sense only a

749
00:30:46,020 --> 00:30:43,770
handful of people knew about it and I

750
00:30:49,050 --> 00:30:46,030
just don't know why they even came out

751
00:30:51,090 --> 00:30:49,060
with it to begin with I I think that

752
00:30:53,550 --> 00:30:51,100
they had to address it in fairness I

753
00:30:55,380 --> 00:30:53,560
mean the the in 1947 there was you have

754
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:55,390
to think about the timeframe we're

755
00:30:59,520 --> 00:30:57,490
post-world War two only by a couple of

756
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:59,530
years there was a lot of fear that there

757
00:31:02,970 --> 00:31:00,640
were foreign threats that could

758
00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:02,980
potentially reach US soil there was a

759
00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:05,380
lot of fear and panic about what the UFO

760
00:31:12,030 --> 00:31:08,950
situation whatever it was really was so

761
00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:12,040
we needed to address it as as a country

762
00:31:15,660 --> 00:31:14,260
I think though by an attempt of doing

763
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:15,670
that when they quote-unquote got a

764
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:19,120
flying saucer crashed in Roswell they

765
00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:20,770
put the foot in their mouth because all

766
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:22,990
of a sudden people were starting to

767
00:31:27,870 --> 00:31:25,360
realize this was not the the right story

768
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:27,880
things were fishy flying saucers

769
00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:30,130
reported crashed and days later no it's

770
00:31:34,170 --> 00:31:32,260
a weather balloon than many many years

771
00:31:36,660 --> 00:31:34,180
no it's a top-secret project mogul

772
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:36,670
balloon the aliens that so many people

773
00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:38,530
had come forward seeing the bodies and

774
00:31:44,370 --> 00:31:41,460
this and that they explained by

775
00:31:45,420 --> 00:31:44,380
crash-test dummies I don't want to give

776
00:31:46,830 --> 00:31:45,430
the illusion that the whole book is

777
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:46,840
about Roswell I only do it in the

778
00:31:51,810 --> 00:31:49,450
beginning of the book yeah but it's to

779
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:51,820
show that how ludicrous the explanation

780
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:54,130
is and how they address the bodies were

781
00:31:57,810 --> 00:31:55,810
a couple different ways they said that

782
00:32:00,390 --> 00:31:57,820
they were crashed Air Force test dummies

783
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:00,400
that they were using to test parachute

784
00:32:06,510 --> 00:32:04,090
systems and and also to aircraft

785
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:06,520
accidents in which multiple Air Force

786
00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:09,610
pilots were either injured or or killed

787
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:11,590
but the problem was is that Roswell

788
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:14,890
happened in 47 the earliest crash test

789
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:17,890
dummy was not invented until 1949 by

790
00:32:21,540 --> 00:32:19,450
Alderson research labs I was the

791
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:21,550
earliest one that I could ever find and

792
00:32:26,790 --> 00:32:23,200
that is documented as being the first

793
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:26,800
then those Air Force incidents in which

794
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,050
pilots were used to explain that

795
00:32:35,010 --> 00:32:31,600
quote-unquote alien bodies were both 9

796
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:35,020
and 12 years after Roswell happened so

797
00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:36,210
it's like how do you have these

798
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:38,670
time-traveling crash test dummies and

799
00:32:42,990 --> 00:32:41,200
time-traveling aircraft you know an Air

800
00:32:45,690 --> 00:32:43,000
Force aircraft that traveled back in

801
00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:45,700
time crashed that's what people saw the

802
00:32:49,170 --> 00:32:47,470
the government essentially was saying

803
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:49,180
that that the witnesses had their dates

804
00:32:55,410 --> 00:32:51,730
wrong but this was the explanation so

805
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:55,420
what I call all of that is the company

806
00:33:00,900 --> 00:32:58,000
line in the book and I revert back to

807
00:33:03,510 --> 00:33:00,910
that throughout the entire book from

808
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:03,520
from cover to cover as the company line

809
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:05,290
because this is what the government

810
00:33:09,690 --> 00:33:07,840
wants you to believe they address two

811
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:09,700
things the Roswell incident and then the

812
00:33:13,890 --> 00:33:11,650
UFO phenomenon as a whole

813
00:33:15,630 --> 00:33:13,900
Roswell they feel that they've explained

814
00:33:18,030 --> 00:33:15,640
but I think we can kind of determine

815
00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:18,040
that there you have current explanations

816
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:20,230
fairly bunk but then they try to explain

817
00:33:25,140 --> 00:33:22,960
the UFO phenomenon as a whole and by

818
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:25,150
doing that they bring up Project Blue

819
00:33:29,820 --> 00:33:27,610
Book twelve thousand six hundred and

820
00:33:31,860 --> 00:33:29,830
eighteen cases that they investigated

821
00:33:34,350 --> 00:33:31,870
only seven hundred and one remained

822
00:33:35,810 --> 00:33:34,360
unidentified and the only reason those

823
00:33:38,370 --> 00:33:35,820
were unidentified was lack of evidence

824
00:33:41,340 --> 00:33:38,380
so what I do in the book is then destroy

825
00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:41,350
that is that I go in and show the fact

826
00:33:45,270 --> 00:33:43,510
that Project Blue Book was not an

827
00:33:46,050 --> 00:33:45,280
investigation and there's a lot of

828
00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:46,060
evidence to

829
00:33:50,610 --> 00:33:48,790
port multiple different angles on why

830
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:50,620
Bluebook was not a real investigation

831
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:53,410
but I essentially destroyed that also

832
00:33:58,290 --> 00:33:55,330
and all I use is their own documents I

833
00:34:01,740 --> 00:33:58,300
don't use any whistleblower testimony no

834
00:34:03,870 --> 00:34:01,750
leaked documents no well I have a gut

835
00:34:06,510 --> 00:34:03,880
feeling that this is true nothing all I

836
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:06,520
do is use exactly what they gave me

837
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:08,890
under the Freedom of Information Act to

838
00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:11,440
destroy that company line and the rest

839
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:13,030
of the book I get away from that and

840
00:34:18,510 --> 00:34:16,240
just focus in on the reality of what is

841
00:34:20,430 --> 00:34:18,520
the UFO phenomenon using their own

842
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:20,440
documents and to be honest with you even

843
00:34:25,410 --> 00:34:23,200
when when I started this 22 years ago I

844
00:34:28,140 --> 00:34:25,420
never thought I would amass the amount

845
00:34:30,780 --> 00:34:28,150
of information that I have but doing the

846
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:30,790
book allowed me to really concentrate

847
00:34:34,140 --> 00:34:32,320
and bring it all together and look at

848
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:34,150
documents that I had not seen for you

849
00:34:38,610 --> 00:34:36,490
know years and years to look at them

850
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:38,620
again and see how damning the evidence

851
00:34:44,070 --> 00:34:41,530
really is when it comes to proving a

852
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,080
cover-up but then also showing the UFO

853
00:34:49,140 --> 00:34:46,720
phenomenon is very real and then on top

854
00:34:51,660 --> 00:34:49,150
of all of that how it's not as easily

855
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:51,670
explainable as many skeptics want us to

856
00:34:57,290 --> 00:34:53,170
believe right right

857
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:57,300
now I heard you say on another show that

858
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:00,880
the longest you have waited for a 4-year

859
00:35:07,170 --> 00:35:04,090
request was 14 years which is amazing so

860
00:35:09,870 --> 00:35:07,180
I want to just ask you do you have to

861
00:35:12,810 --> 00:35:09,880
keep following up or do you put in the

862
00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:12,820
request and time goes by and all of a

863
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:14,590
sudden one day you forgot all about it

864
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:16,240
but it pops in the mail well how does

865
00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:19,690
that work kind of both do you have to

866
00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:22,120
keep on top of it technically no once

867
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:23,830
you're in the system they should respond

868
00:35:30,150 --> 00:35:26,770
to you my record was 14 and a half years

869
00:35:31,650 --> 00:35:30,160
as you noted and that's a long time to

870
00:35:33,330 --> 00:35:31,660
wait I wrote an article when I got the

871
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:33,340
document finally not based on what the

872
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:35,650
document was about but what happened on

873
00:35:39,060 --> 00:35:37,210
the planet in the fourteen and a half

874
00:35:40,860 --> 00:35:39,070
years that I waited for that document to

875
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:40,870
come yeah and it was just more of a

876
00:35:44,370 --> 00:35:42,850
humorous look at how long they make you

877
00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:44,380
wait and that's part of the game in my

878
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:46,390
opinion that I think that they want

879
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:48,130
people to lose interest which I'm sure a

880
00:35:52,050 --> 00:35:50,290
lot of people do the Freedom of

881
00:35:54,570 --> 00:35:52,060
Information Act is mainly utilized by

882
00:35:55,890 --> 00:35:54,580
journalists so if you're and I say

883
00:35:58,140 --> 00:35:55,900
mainly I mean I don't know what the

884
00:35:59,850 --> 00:35:58,150
exact percentages are but if you're

885
00:36:02,370 --> 00:35:59,860
writing a story or an expose

886
00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:02,380
UFOs and you file FOIA requests you have

887
00:36:07,050 --> 00:36:04,390
a deadline and your deadline is not 14

888
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:07,060
and a half years to the future so a lot

889
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:08,770
of times then the documents become

890
00:36:13,260 --> 00:36:10,750
irrelevant so it's all part of the game

891
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:13,270
sadly they want people to go away they

892
00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:15,610
want people to lose interest they've had

893
00:36:20,610 --> 00:36:18,550
a growing knack of after a couple years

894
00:36:23,010 --> 00:36:20,620
instead of you checking in with them

895
00:36:25,170 --> 00:36:23,020
they will check in with you and they

896
00:36:26,820 --> 00:36:25,180
will say okay Martin are you still

897
00:36:28,110 --> 00:36:26,830
interested in this document because it's

898
00:36:30,270 --> 00:36:28,120
been three years since you've requested

899
00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:30,280
it if we don't hear from you in 30 days

900
00:36:33,870 --> 00:36:31,240
we're just going to go ahead and close

901
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:33,880
your case so then you're forced to stay

902
00:36:37,380 --> 00:36:35,710
on top of it now they're not actually

903
00:36:39,810 --> 00:36:37,390
legally able to do that they're actually

904
00:36:41,130 --> 00:36:39,820
fighting it in the courts and I believe

905
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:41,140
that they've actually already won that

906
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:42,640
government agencies are not allowed to

907
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:45,130
do it but they still do it and in fact

908
00:36:51,540 --> 00:36:47,920
one I posted on Twitter this week was

909
00:36:53,070 --> 00:36:51,550
where they three years ago asked me if I

910
00:36:55,470 --> 00:36:53,080
was still interested in the document

911
00:36:57,170 --> 00:36:55,480
they wrote that about two or three years

912
00:36:59,970 --> 00:36:57,180
after I originally filed the request

913
00:37:02,250 --> 00:36:59,980
fast forward another three years to this

914
00:37:04,590 --> 00:37:02,260
week they did the exact same thing are

915
00:37:08,070 --> 00:37:04,600
you still interested so now I'm like six

916
00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:08,080
years or so in to waiting for this

917
00:37:12,450 --> 00:37:10,630
document to come and they keep asking

918
00:37:14,220 --> 00:37:12,460
and honestly I mean I hate to be morbid

919
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:14,230
about it but it's like they just want

920
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:16,450
you to go away and die you know like

921
00:37:19,590 --> 00:37:17,920
they're just waiting for that day that

922
00:37:22,110 --> 00:37:19,600
John Greenwald is not around anymore to

923
00:37:24,690 --> 00:37:22,120
answer this and that's sad not to be

924
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:24,700
morbid but I mean it's it's humorous but

925
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:27,130
not it's like why why wait this long

926
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:29,710
stop spending the effort trying to see

927
00:37:34,740 --> 00:37:32,290
if I'm still interested and just process

928
00:37:37,350 --> 00:37:34,750
it and my responses are always the same

929
00:37:40,410 --> 00:37:37,360
to these agencies I never lose interest

930
00:37:41,970 --> 00:37:40,420
in any of my requests and I'm interested

931
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:41,980
because you know I've filed a request

932
00:37:45,150 --> 00:37:43,210
I'm not going to lose the interest so

933
00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:45,160
please process it accordingly and they

934
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:47,080
still do it same exact request couple

935
00:37:51,450 --> 00:37:49,570
years go by they'll try it again and you

936
00:37:55,380 --> 00:37:51,460
know thankfully I'm still alive at this

937
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:55,390
point knock on wood yeah but but yeah as

938
00:37:58,980 --> 00:37:57,370
I get older and not again not to be

939
00:38:01,140 --> 00:37:58,990
morbid but as I get older there will

940
00:38:04,110 --> 00:38:01,150
become an age where I file a FOIA

941
00:38:06,060 --> 00:38:04,120
request to go hmmm I wonder if I am

942
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:06,070
gonna be alive by the time that they

943
00:38:10,050 --> 00:38:07,690
respond to this thing because if you're

944
00:38:12,540 --> 00:38:10,060
waiting a decade and a half a lot can

945
00:38:13,620 --> 00:38:12,550
happen in a decade and a half and even

946
00:38:15,390 --> 00:38:13,630
though it's morbid to think

947
00:38:17,099 --> 00:38:15,400
about it's all part of the game that

948
00:38:19,710 --> 00:38:17,109
they want to play isn't that something

949
00:38:22,529 --> 00:38:19,720
now because of that because of what you

950
00:38:24,569 --> 00:38:22,539
do do you think you're on any type of I

951
00:38:26,339 --> 00:38:24,579
know this sounds a little conspiratorial

952
00:38:29,099 --> 00:38:26,349
but I do think you're on any type of

953
00:38:30,660 --> 00:38:29,109
watchlist of any kind or you know

954
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:30,670
they're just paying attention to you

955
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:33,490
because of what you're asking for I am

956
00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:37,210
not sure how the the official answer is

957
00:38:41,819 --> 00:38:39,700
no according to the government I have

958
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:41,829
filed a FOIA request to the FBI for my

959
00:38:45,180 --> 00:38:43,599
own file mm-hmm I was one of the

960
00:38:47,370 --> 00:38:45,190
quickest response as I ever got they

961
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:47,380
said there's nothing there maybe other

962
00:38:52,319 --> 00:38:49,210
agencies are paying attention and and

963
00:38:56,099 --> 00:38:52,329
investigating who knows but for me I

964
00:38:58,620 --> 00:38:56,109
think that I struggle with thinking

965
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:58,630
about this is it scarier that I'm doing

966
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:01,359
what I'm doing for 22 years starting as

967
00:39:06,059 --> 00:39:03,849
a teenager posting millions of documents

968
00:39:07,799 --> 00:39:06,069
on the internet for everyone to download

969
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:07,809
around the world for free and they're

970
00:39:12,509 --> 00:39:09,490
looking into that because they're scared

971
00:39:15,059 --> 00:39:12,519
or what's scarier I'm doing all that and

972
00:39:17,039 --> 00:39:15,069
that they aren't looking into me that

973
00:39:20,190 --> 00:39:17,049
they aren't caring about what I'm doing

974
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:20,200
so part of me is I hope they do care to

975
00:39:26,039 --> 00:39:23,410
a point I'm not a Julian Assange I don't

976
00:39:28,019 --> 00:39:26,049
take government documents in a dark

977
00:39:30,690 --> 00:39:28,029
alley and post them for the world to see

978
00:39:32,099 --> 00:39:30,700
that's not my mo but I would hope that

979
00:39:34,410 --> 00:39:32,109
they're concerned about that and I would

980
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:34,420
welcome that scrutiny I'm not concerned

981
00:39:38,819 --> 00:39:35,890
about it at all I got nothing to hide

982
00:39:41,309 --> 00:39:38,829
and I do what I do legally and and I do

983
00:39:46,019 --> 00:39:41,319
it respectfully as respectfully as I can

984
00:39:48,779 --> 00:39:46,029
anyway now would you you know this kind

985
00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:48,789
of a question you probably probably

986
00:39:56,339 --> 00:39:51,569
shouldn't ask this early into the show

987
00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:56,349
but do you have out of those two million

988
00:40:02,150 --> 00:39:58,720
documents do you have I don't want to

989
00:40:04,740 --> 00:40:02,160
say smoking gun but close to smoking gun

990
00:40:06,210 --> 00:40:04,750
records that you found like really

991
00:40:08,670 --> 00:40:06,220
really compelling when you got them in

992
00:40:11,039 --> 00:40:08,680
the mail I think that the smoking gun

993
00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:11,049
for me is the overall picture it's it's

994
00:40:15,690 --> 00:40:13,089
the overall way that the United States

995
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:15,700
government deals with the issue I think

996
00:40:20,849 --> 00:40:18,400
it's the overall way they deny interest

997
00:40:23,609 --> 00:40:20,859
in the issue that the government

998
00:40:26,460 --> 00:40:23,619
documents completely contradict what I

999
00:40:27,059 --> 00:40:26,470
call again that company line to me that

1000
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:27,069
is

1001
00:40:31,620 --> 00:40:29,680
more of the smoking gun but one of the

1002
00:40:35,309 --> 00:40:31,630
things that I talked about briefly in

1003
00:40:37,170 --> 00:40:35,319
the book is what is your definition of a

1004
00:40:40,499 --> 00:40:37,180
smoking gun and one thing that I've

1005
00:40:42,359 --> 00:40:40,509
learned in in 22 years and I have a lot

1006
00:40:45,779 --> 00:40:42,369
of fun doing shows like this and and

1007
00:40:47,849 --> 00:40:45,789
speaking to the public is everybody has

1008
00:40:50,459 --> 00:40:47,859
their own definition of what a smoking

1009
00:40:52,589 --> 00:40:50,469
gun is for some people it is the

1010
00:40:54,660 --> 00:40:52,599
documents and the overall arc of the

1011
00:40:56,430 --> 00:40:54,670
story and how the government deals with

1012
00:40:58,890 --> 00:40:56,440
it other times people want the smoking

1013
00:41:00,989 --> 00:40:58,900
gun that says we have alien bodies

1014
00:41:02,939 --> 00:41:00,999
period and then that's it and that's the

1015
00:41:05,549 --> 00:41:02,949
smoking gun for others it's just

1016
00:41:10,049 --> 00:41:05,559
testimony you know evidence be darned

1017
00:41:11,699 --> 00:41:10,059
it's so-and-so X Y Z says ABC and and

1018
00:41:13,499 --> 00:41:11,709
that's enough for them so I've learned

1019
00:41:16,589 --> 00:41:13,509
that the smoking gun is very very

1020
00:41:18,209 --> 00:41:16,599
different for everybody so not to be

1021
00:41:19,769 --> 00:41:18,219
long-winded with you but just to kind of

1022
00:41:21,930 --> 00:41:19,779
give a background on what I feel about

1023
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:21,940
what that smoking gun is but I feel that

1024
00:41:26,910 --> 00:41:23,890
there are a lot of documents that drive

1025
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:26,920
home the length of how far the

1026
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:29,650
government will go to one of my personal

1027
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:32,650
favorites is Air Force manual 10 - 2 0 6

1028
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:36,130
and what this was was a fine that I made

1029
00:41:43,319 --> 00:41:39,729
back into about 2000 2001 on accident

1030
00:41:46,979 --> 00:41:43,329
researching present-day UFO reporting

1031
00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:46,989
procedures and what I was amazed at was

1032
00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:49,569
that hidden in plain sight was this Air

1033
00:41:55,410 --> 00:41:52,150
Force manual 10 - to 0-6 an unclassified

1034
00:41:59,269 --> 00:41:55,420
document that instructed all Air Force

1035
00:42:03,120 --> 00:41:59,279
pilots to report UFOs as they see them

1036
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:03,130
and and that the following this manual

1037
00:42:08,089 --> 00:42:05,650
was mandatory so this was an a well if

1038
00:42:11,219 --> 00:42:08,099
you feel like it's important no it was

1039
00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:11,229
said verbatim compliance with this

1040
00:42:15,630 --> 00:42:13,599
regulation is mandatory and so that that

1041
00:42:19,140 --> 00:42:15,640
that meant that it was a very serious

1042
00:42:22,410 --> 00:42:19,150
topic chapter 5 was devoted to the UFO

1043
00:42:24,569 --> 00:42:22,420
topic now I had reported this you know

1044
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:24,579
on my website on the black vault comm

1045
00:42:28,769 --> 00:42:27,249
but also through History Channel I do a

1046
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,779
lot of work in television as a producer

1047
00:42:32,969 --> 00:42:30,880
and writer and we worked it into I

1048
00:42:34,589 --> 00:42:32,979
believe to Total History Channel

1049
00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:34,599
documentaries it was a very important

1050
00:42:38,329 --> 00:42:36,609
part of those stories but I didn't feel

1051
00:42:40,650 --> 00:42:38,339
that it got the spotlight it deserved

1052
00:42:42,210 --> 00:42:40,660
because in there and there's a lot

1053
00:42:44,329 --> 00:42:42,220
speculation out there on whether or not

1054
00:42:47,309 --> 00:42:44,339
the government has hidden for many years

1055
00:42:49,890 --> 00:42:47,319
UFOs or unidentified flying objects as

1056
00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:49,900
an acronym that they shield it under

1057
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:52,329
something else well this was proof that

1058
00:42:56,099 --> 00:42:53,890
it they don't do that it said

1059
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:56,109
unidentified flying objects black and

1060
00:43:01,020 --> 00:42:57,839
white there was no hiding anything and

1061
00:43:02,670 --> 00:43:01,030
so when the Huffington Post named Lee

1062
00:43:05,549 --> 00:43:02,680
Lee Spiegel who was working for them at

1063
00:43:09,029 --> 00:43:05,559
the time he had contacted me about doing

1064
00:43:11,010 --> 00:43:09,039
a story on the top 5 best documents that

1065
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:11,020
I had received about UFOs this was one

1066
00:43:14,490 --> 00:43:13,359
of five that I had given him I think it

1067
00:43:17,010 --> 00:43:14,500
stuck out to him because it was

1068
00:43:18,539 --> 00:43:17,020
irrefutable it showed that the

1069
00:43:20,460 --> 00:43:18,549
government agency that would that was

1070
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:20,470
leading the company lying I mean they

1071
00:43:25,490 --> 00:43:23,650
literally created the company line that

1072
00:43:28,049 --> 00:43:25,500
they said they had no interest in UFOs

1073
00:43:30,809 --> 00:43:28,059
they have a reporting procedure on

1074
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:30,819
reporting UFOs right like you can't get

1075
00:43:35,130 --> 00:43:32,890
any more ridiculous than that as a

1076
00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:35,140
contradiction and so he called the

1077
00:43:41,130 --> 00:43:38,220
Pentagon for some type of a response

1078
00:43:43,289 --> 00:43:41,140
they he left a message he didn't get one

1079
00:43:45,059 --> 00:43:43,299
well journalists have deadlines and I

1080
00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:45,069
remember fast forward the story a few

1081
00:43:49,319 --> 00:43:47,049
days he called me late on a Friday night

1082
00:43:50,519 --> 00:43:49,329
I was visiting my sister and he calls me

1083
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:50,529
on the telephone he's just John you're

1084
00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:51,970
not gonna believe this and I said what

1085
00:43:56,970 --> 00:43:54,910
and he says Air Force manual 10-2 0-6

1086
00:43:58,980 --> 00:43:56,980
chapter 5 I said yeah he says it's gone

1087
00:44:01,710 --> 00:43:58,990
yeah I said what are you talking about

1088
00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:01,720
and he had I'd showed him how to

1089
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:04,390
download it on the internet because when

1090
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:06,609
I had discovered it in 2000 it was not

1091
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:08,410
online through the years that had gone

1092
00:44:13,079 --> 00:44:10,960
online another key point of this it was

1093
00:44:15,089 --> 00:44:13,089
revised many years and I am able to

1094
00:44:15,809 --> 00:44:15,099
prove that it's documented but UFOs

1095
00:44:18,269 --> 00:44:15,819
never came out

1096
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:18,279
when Huffington Post and Lee Spiegel was

1097
00:44:21,809 --> 00:44:20,410
making phone calls I said look you could

1098
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:21,819
take my word for it but let me show you

1099
00:44:26,190 --> 00:44:24,010
a Air Force site to download this from

1100
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,200
that's what he was using and when he

1101
00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:28,480
goes to fact-check something goes to

1102
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:30,520
download at chapter 5 was rewritten

1103
00:44:35,579 --> 00:44:32,890
completely gone yeah and it had

1104
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:35,589
something to do with now hurricanes and

1105
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:36,970
so when he called me I just thought I

1106
00:44:39,779 --> 00:44:38,200
mean I love Lee I've been friends with

1107
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:39,789
him for years so I mean no disrespect

1108
00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:41,200
but I thought you know what probably

1109
00:44:44,970 --> 00:44:42,940
clicked on the wrong link he didn't know

1110
00:44:48,450 --> 00:44:44,980
where he was going or whatever you know

1111
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:48,460
and I got home and you know I was amazed

1112
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:50,650
to see that they covered it up they

1113
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:52,930
changed the manual the revision date was

1114
00:44:58,020 --> 00:44:54,570
about 48 hours or so

1115
00:45:00,180 --> 00:44:58,030
after Lee's original phone call which

1116
00:45:02,220 --> 00:45:00,190
means that the minute a major mainstream

1117
00:45:04,530 --> 00:45:02,230
media outlet was going to spotlight it

1118
00:45:07,470 --> 00:45:04,540
yeah and show this was irrefutable proof

1119
00:45:09,210 --> 00:45:07,480
they made a poof go away that's right I

1120
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:09,220
call it the greatest trick of a magician

1121
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:11,710
and it's it's like look at my right hand

1122
00:45:15,089 --> 00:45:12,970
so you don't know what the left hand is

1123
00:45:16,859 --> 00:45:15,099
doing and the left hand was trying very

1124
00:45:19,770 --> 00:45:16,869
very hard to get rid of the evidence

1125
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:19,780
they did then Lee gets a call back and

1126
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:21,250
apparently they tried to claim it was a

1127
00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:23,650
coincidence or something like that but

1128
00:45:29,010 --> 00:45:26,680
for me that showed irrefutable proof

1129
00:45:31,380 --> 00:45:29,020
that number one they are interested in

1130
00:45:32,940 --> 00:45:31,390
UFOs decades after Bluebook but number

1131
00:45:35,010 --> 00:45:32,950
two they'll go to great lengths to cover

1132
00:45:37,290 --> 00:45:35,020
it up that the minute we were allowed to

1133
00:45:39,770 --> 00:45:37,300
put this in front of the general public

1134
00:45:42,329 --> 00:45:39,780
and go see this is something worthwhile

1135
00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:42,339
they just made it all go away and say

1136
00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:43,630
yeah well we weren't really interested

1137
00:45:47,310 --> 00:45:45,910
in it and so on and so forth it was all

1138
00:45:49,950 --> 00:45:47,320
a coincidence we were planning on taking

1139
00:45:53,130 --> 00:45:49,960
it away and going back to my quick note

1140
00:45:55,170 --> 00:45:53,140
about the fact that it was revised why

1141
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:55,180
that is important is it shows that it

1142
00:46:00,620 --> 00:45:57,760
was not a dead publication that it was

1143
00:46:03,630 --> 00:46:00,630
not forgotten about it was actively

1144
00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:03,640
revised through the years after me

1145
00:46:08,339 --> 00:46:06,609
finding it and UFOs was never taken out

1146
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:08,349
and the reason why that's important is

1147
00:46:12,359 --> 00:46:11,050
it shows that they had ample opportunity

1148
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:12,369
to do just that

1149
00:46:16,170 --> 00:46:14,650
until someone was going to spotlight it

1150
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:16,180
in the major media and then they made it

1151
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:16,810
go away

1152
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:20,050
yeah that's something well to be fair to

1153
00:46:23,250 --> 00:46:21,730
what you said earlier Lee is rather

1154
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:23,260
technically challenged I mean he just

1155
00:46:30,540 --> 00:46:27,130
graduated from a flip phone recently an

1156
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:30,550
iPhone and I hope he's listening but

1157
00:46:36,030 --> 00:46:33,520
yeah he told me that he he he told me

1158
00:46:38,250 --> 00:46:36,040
that story and I just thought that was

1159
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:38,260
amazing I have a actually on my website

1160
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:40,930
I have that document you know that that

1161
00:46:46,380 --> 00:46:42,910
showed that but yeah that that whole

1162
00:46:47,609 --> 00:46:46,390
thing to me I vaguely remember you being

1163
00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:47,619
part of it you're the one who actually

1164
00:46:52,050 --> 00:46:49,750
found it and yeah you know that is a

1165
00:46:54,510 --> 00:46:52,060
great great document other some other

1166
00:46:55,140 --> 00:46:54,520
we're going to break in about five

1167
00:46:58,220 --> 00:46:55,150
minutes here

1168
00:47:01,320 --> 00:46:58,230
there's some other really compelling

1169
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:01,330
situations like that or as far as I'm

1170
00:47:07,290 --> 00:47:04,330
trying to vanish something or does it

1171
00:47:08,250 --> 00:47:07,300
all just eventually trickle out you know

1172
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:08,260
the unclassified

1173
00:47:13,260 --> 00:47:11,410
stuff yeah now that they're in a

1174
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:13,270
indirect way I would say it's very

1175
00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:15,730
similar under the Freedom of Information

1176
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:17,350
Act there's a thing called mandatory

1177
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:20,410
declassification review now I bring this

1178
00:47:23,730 --> 00:47:22,210
up just to give a quick context that

1179
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:23,740
under the Freedom of Information Act

1180
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:25,810
let's say you requested something in

1181
00:47:31,590 --> 00:47:28,960
1990 they release a blacked out version

1182
00:47:33,420 --> 00:47:31,600
if for the next twenty years people are

1183
00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:33,430
requesting that same document through

1184
00:47:38,550 --> 00:47:35,620
the Freedom of Information Act they will

1185
00:47:40,890 --> 00:47:38,560
release that original 1990 version with

1186
00:47:42,330 --> 00:47:40,900
all the redactions until someone

1187
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:42,340
requests a mandatory declassification

1188
00:47:47,580 --> 00:47:45,610
review the minute that happens they have

1189
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:47,590
to go back and re review the information

1190
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:50,050
that they blacked out now this is

1191
00:47:55,170 --> 00:47:52,210
important because what's not or excuse

1192
00:47:58,580 --> 00:47:55,180
me what's classified in 1990 is not

1193
00:48:01,170 --> 00:47:58,590
necessarily classified in 2015 or 2019

1194
00:48:02,580 --> 00:48:01,180
so what I did was I collected all the

1195
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:02,590
UFO documents from all the big

1196
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:05,170
intelligence agencies then I went back

1197
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:07,200
and requested mandatory declassification

1198
00:48:13,230 --> 00:48:11,200
reviews on what I had received years

1199
00:48:15,210 --> 00:48:13,240
prior which means they have to go back

1200
00:48:18,300 --> 00:48:15,220
and re review all that blacked out

1201
00:48:19,470 --> 00:48:18,310
material there is a lot you can read in

1202
00:48:21,870 --> 00:48:19,480
these documents but there's a lot you

1203
00:48:24,060 --> 00:48:21,880
can't it's classified taught all the way

1204
00:48:26,310 --> 00:48:24,070
through to the top-secret level it's

1205
00:48:27,900 --> 00:48:26,320
considered highly classified and two

1206
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:27,910
agencies I'll bring up here the National

1207
00:48:32,130 --> 00:48:29,890
Security Agency and the Defense

1208
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:32,140
Intelligence Agency the reason why I

1209
00:48:36,830 --> 00:48:33,910
bring those up is that they're UFO

1210
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:36,840
documents span well into the 2000s and

1211
00:48:42,810 --> 00:48:39,490
again show a very high level of

1212
00:48:44,310 --> 00:48:42,820
classification including top-secret so I

1213
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:44,320
requested a mandatory declassification

1214
00:48:49,980 --> 00:48:47,170
review from will deal with the NSA first

1215
00:48:52,170 --> 00:48:49,990
they have off the top of my head maybe

1216
00:48:53,820 --> 00:48:52,180
three or four hundred or so documents

1217
00:48:56,310 --> 00:48:53,830
mostly what are called

1218
00:48:58,470 --> 00:48:56,320
common to report COMINT or

1219
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:58,480
communications intelligence they talk

1220
00:49:02,730 --> 00:49:00,880
about UFOs let the majority of them are

1221
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:02,740
blacked out you can only read like four

1222
00:49:07,650 --> 00:49:05,040
or five six words on the entire page

1223
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:07,660
doing an MDR makes them go back and re

1224
00:49:12,660 --> 00:49:10,570
review it wouldn't you know that the NSA

1225
00:49:15,540 --> 00:49:12,670
after they process my request took like

1226
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:15,550
two years if I remember they could not

1227
00:49:20,610 --> 00:49:18,640
find a single document that dealt with

1228
00:49:21,370 --> 00:49:20,620
UFOs that they had released years prior

1229
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:21,380
that was

1230
00:49:25,450 --> 00:49:23,930
not blacked out according to them they

1231
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:25,460
blacked out the originals or in their

1232
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:27,170
case they whited it out makes it a lot

1233
00:49:33,850 --> 00:49:31,370
less sinister looking and shredded the

1234
00:49:35,890 --> 00:49:33,860
originals or lost the originals or got

1235
00:49:37,660 --> 00:49:35,900
rid of them or you know fill in the

1236
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:37,670
blank but they didn't have them anymore

1237
00:49:43,180 --> 00:49:40,370
so for me it wasn't the lye on the

1238
00:49:44,770 --> 00:49:43,190
cover-up it was an oops it was we don't

1239
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:44,780
have these anymore because we made a

1240
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:47,210
pretty big blunder and all of these

1241
00:49:51,070 --> 00:49:49,760
documents are gone they said that they

1242
00:49:53,710 --> 00:49:51,080
did find what's called the Yates

1243
00:49:56,110 --> 00:49:53,720
affidavit which is the court top-secret

1244
00:49:59,550 --> 00:49:56,120
court affidavit that was given during

1245
00:50:02,940 --> 00:49:59,560
the citizens against UFO secrecy v NS a

1246
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:02,950
court case in the late 1970s early 1980s

1247
00:50:06,430 --> 00:50:04,970
were under the Freedom of Information

1248
00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:06,440
Act they were trying to get those

1249
00:50:10,930 --> 00:50:09,110
comment reports out they did find that

1250
00:50:13,390 --> 00:50:10,940
and they gave me a less redacted version

1251
00:50:16,900 --> 00:50:13,400
but sadly they claimed that they lost

1252
00:50:19,570 --> 00:50:16,910
all of those UFO documents the Defense

1253
00:50:22,780 --> 00:50:19,580
Intelligence Agency did the exact same

1254
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:22,790
thing they claimed that they lost all of

1255
00:50:29,380 --> 00:50:26,210
their UFO information and can't find it

1256
00:50:31,450 --> 00:50:29,390
now the likelihood of a intelligence

1257
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:31,460
agency like the NSA especially in the

1258
00:50:34,780 --> 00:50:32,210
digital age

1259
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:34,790
so just lose all that information you

1260
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:36,650
know a lot of it's been digitized it

1261
00:50:40,420 --> 00:50:38,690
doesn't matter if it was written before

1262
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:40,430
computers and scanners existed or that

1263
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:42,410
they were being utilized a lot of that

1264
00:50:45,970 --> 00:50:44,240
information has been digitized for them

1265
00:50:48,490 --> 00:50:45,980
to say that they lost it the chances of

1266
00:50:51,310 --> 00:50:48,500
that are pretty nil add in a second

1267
00:50:53,410 --> 00:50:51,320
Intelligence Agency in my opinion that's

1268
00:50:56,380 --> 00:50:53,420
a blatant cover-up it's it's a blatant

1269
00:50:58,480 --> 00:50:56,390
attempt to get people like me to go away

1270
00:51:01,180 --> 00:50:58,490
because now there is nothing that I can

1271
00:51:04,210 --> 00:51:01,190
do to fight for those UFO documents

1272
00:51:07,150 --> 00:51:04,220
because now their official line is that

1273
00:51:08,980 --> 00:51:07,160
they are 100% destroyed now I remember

1274
00:51:11,140 --> 00:51:08,990
reading in your book we only have just

1275
00:51:16,180 --> 00:51:11,150
like a minute and a half here reading in

1276
00:51:19,420 --> 00:51:16,190
your book where you had received a no no

1277
00:51:21,580 --> 00:51:19,430
doc no such documents they don't exist

1278
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:21,590
and all that and then the very same

1279
00:51:26,410 --> 00:51:24,290
person that said that to you actually

1280
00:51:29,470 --> 00:51:26,420
released a whole bunch of UFO documents

1281
00:51:31,630 --> 00:51:29,480
yeah ironically I read about it at UFO

1282
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:31,640
magazine bill birnes his publication I

1283
00:51:35,259 --> 00:51:34,730
was writing for him at the time and yet

1284
00:51:39,699 --> 00:51:35,269
the

1285
00:51:42,189 --> 00:51:39,709
UFO documents from wright-patterson Air

1286
00:51:43,449 --> 00:51:42,199
Force Base they claim we have nothing it

1287
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:43,459
got transferred over to the National

1288
00:51:47,169 --> 00:51:45,529
Archives all of that fits into their

1289
00:51:49,059 --> 00:51:47,179
company line that everything is at the

1290
00:51:51,399 --> 00:51:49,069
National Archives also another point

1291
00:51:53,529 --> 00:51:51,409
that's not true and then years later

1292
00:51:56,559 --> 00:51:53,539
about a thousand pages mysteriously

1293
00:51:58,659 --> 00:51:56,569
appeared and I read an article and the

1294
00:52:01,959 --> 00:51:58,669
spokesperson that was quoted was the

1295
00:52:04,359 --> 00:52:01,969
same guy that actually signed the

1296
00:52:06,669 --> 00:52:04,369
original denial letter a couple years

1297
00:52:09,009 --> 00:52:06,679
prior now was it an oversight was it a

1298
00:52:10,449 --> 00:52:09,019
mistake all of that is possible but

1299
00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:10,459
sadly that's not how the Freedom of

1300
00:52:15,399 --> 00:52:12,649
Information Act works if they say they

1301
00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:15,409
do a search they need to buy by under

1302
00:52:19,630 --> 00:52:17,569
the law if they're just doing it you

1303
00:52:21,549 --> 00:52:19,640
know haphazardly and they're not doing a

1304
00:52:24,370 --> 00:52:21,559
complete search that's a problem in

1305
00:52:27,069 --> 00:52:24,380
itself right okay we're at break my

1306
00:52:29,979 --> 00:52:27,079
guest is John Greenwald jr. and we'll be

1307
00:52:31,659 --> 00:52:29,989
right back right after these men all

1308
00:52:34,269 --> 00:52:31,669
right welcome back on Martin Willis with

1309
00:52:37,539 --> 00:52:34,279
podcast UFO and my guest is John

1310
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:37,549
Greenwald jr. John I'm gonna open up the

1311
00:52:41,949 --> 00:52:39,249
lines for anyone that likes to call in

1312
00:52:44,679 --> 00:52:41,959
that number will be up on the screen and

1313
00:52:47,620 --> 00:52:44,689
for those of you over at kgr a radio

1314
00:52:50,109 --> 00:52:47,630
that number is six oh three nine six

1315
00:52:52,389 --> 00:52:50,119
seven four OH three oh that numbers only

1316
00:52:54,279 --> 00:52:52,399
live during the show only I get people

1317
00:52:56,889 --> 00:52:54,289
calling it all the time it's a Skype

1318
00:53:01,569 --> 00:52:56,899
number so we can take calls if someone

1319
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:01,579
would like to call in so as far as I

1320
00:53:08,739 --> 00:53:03,169
think we got someone already it looks

1321
00:53:11,649 --> 00:53:08,749
like we do hold on caller your first

1322
00:53:15,039 --> 00:53:11,659
name and where you calling from my name

1323
00:53:19,059 --> 00:53:15,049
is Dave Altman how you doing Martin hi

1324
00:53:20,889 --> 00:53:19,069
Dave how are you I'm doing good hey John

1325
00:53:24,819 --> 00:53:20,899
how you doing hi Dave I'm good how are

1326
00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:24,829
you hey so I don't know if you remember

1327
00:53:28,620 --> 00:53:27,649
but I work with David O'Leary from

1328
00:53:32,620 --> 00:53:28,630
Project Blue Book's

1329
00:53:35,409 --> 00:53:32,630
okay and yeah yeah I was trying a few

1330
00:53:37,539 --> 00:53:35,419
thousand volumes earlier yeah I've been

1331
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:37,549
calling you for months trying to get to

1332
00:53:43,779 --> 00:53:39,849
see if you can get those pages for me

1333
00:53:45,699 --> 00:53:43,789
what pages are you talking about um we

1334
00:53:49,210 --> 00:53:45,709
were looking to get maybe a couple of

1335
00:53:51,580 --> 00:53:49,220
the actual pages well obviously not the

1336
00:53:55,540 --> 00:53:51,590
actual pages but copies of some blue

1337
00:54:01,480 --> 00:53:55,550
book pages okay so so you solutions

1338
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:01,490
online tape sorry if I missed a message

1339
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:05,690
from yeah so yeah we had email we had

1340
00:54:14,290 --> 00:54:07,010
email back and forth

1341
00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:14,300
John D'Souza hooked us up okay yeah yeah

1342
00:54:16,839 --> 00:54:15,710
I'll be more than happy to look I mean

1343
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:16,849
to be honest with you know the blue book

1344
00:54:21,970 --> 00:54:20,480
stuff is is fairly open source online I

1345
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:21,980
know that there's a couple websites to

1346
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:24,530
get it from but I'd be more than happy

1347
00:54:29,859 --> 00:54:27,410
to send you a link if you want TN every

1348
00:54:32,530 --> 00:54:29,869
everywhere I went I I couldn't get them

1349
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:32,540
and I talked to George Knapp and a bunch

1350
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:34,910
of other people and everybody said the

1351
00:54:41,530 --> 00:54:36,890
guy you gotta go to is john greenwald

1352
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:41,540
john greenwald well and yeah we were at

1353
00:54:47,890 --> 00:54:45,710
Megacon and during David's interview

1354
00:54:50,589 --> 00:54:47,900
with with George Knapp he gave you a

1355
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:50,599
couple of shout outs and we were out in

1356
00:54:56,170 --> 00:54:53,210
the in the lounge afterwards and some

1357
00:54:58,690 --> 00:54:56,180
guy ran up and said hey I'm talking to

1358
00:55:00,849 --> 00:54:58,700
John Greenwald right now and he wanted

1359
00:55:02,740 --> 00:55:00,859
to say thanks for David giving a shout

1360
00:55:05,380 --> 00:55:02,750
out for black vault during the interview

1361
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:05,390
happy about that yeah I said and I said

1362
00:55:09,460 --> 00:55:07,280
to the guy give me that phone right now

1363
00:55:14,620 --> 00:55:09,470
I want to talk to John about the blue

1364
00:55:17,710 --> 00:55:14,630
book pages just on messenger and I said

1365
00:55:19,690 --> 00:55:17,720
okay just tell them I said hi ya know

1366
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:19,700
I'm sorry if I missed something but I'll

1367
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:20,810
be more than happy to point you the

1368
00:55:23,650 --> 00:55:22,250
right direction it's it's an interesting

1369
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:23,660
story Martin I don't know if you want me

1370
00:55:28,420 --> 00:55:25,490
to get into it I had all of the Blue

1371
00:55:32,380 --> 00:55:28,430
Book stuff posted for a little bit from

1372
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:32,390
last year that I'm sorry Rob Mercier no

1373
00:55:36,430 --> 00:55:34,130
no no that was something different yeah

1374
00:55:38,380 --> 00:55:36,440
which is a very cool story and much

1375
00:55:42,370 --> 00:55:38,390
cooler actually than this one but the

1376
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:42,380
short of it is ancestry.com tried to

1377
00:55:47,290 --> 00:55:44,690
throw a copyright claim on the project

1378
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:47,300
dr. that yeah yeah it was a really bad

1379
00:55:52,750 --> 00:55:49,490
debacle and the only reason I bring that

1380
00:55:53,260 --> 00:55:52,760
up is to say you know here on an open

1381
00:55:55,089 --> 00:55:53,270
forum

1382
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:55,099
I don't disseminate those documents

1383
00:56:00,570 --> 00:55:57,680
because I was threatened to be sued

1384
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:00,580
that's right which is is such a

1385
00:56:04,300 --> 00:56:03,050
ridiculous story so I

1386
00:56:05,890 --> 00:56:04,310
forced to bring them down I don't

1387
00:56:08,350 --> 00:56:05,900
believe that they had any right to do it

1388
00:56:10,570 --> 00:56:08,360
but it's ancestry.com they got a lot

1389
00:56:13,180 --> 00:56:10,580
more money than I do and they tried to

1390
00:56:14,410 --> 00:56:13,190
lay a copyright claim on them the only

1391
00:56:16,390 --> 00:56:14,420
evidence they had by the way is because

1392
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:16,400
I gave them a special thanks and it

1393
00:56:21,070 --> 00:56:18,290
wasn't ancestry.com it was a subsidiary

1394
00:56:23,170 --> 00:56:21,080
they bought many many years ago the only

1395
00:56:25,570 --> 00:56:23,180
reason I'm bringing that up is I don't

1396
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:25,580
have a lot of those documents I would

1397
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:26,810
just have to point you to those websites

1398
00:56:33,580 --> 00:56:31,490
that are online but I will I know your

1399
00:56:35,950 --> 00:56:33,590
last name so I'll search my email and

1400
00:56:38,050 --> 00:56:35,960
I'll make sure I didn't miss anything or

1401
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:38,060
if I did I apologize and then I'll drop

1402
00:56:41,380 --> 00:56:40,130
you a line and you know see if I can

1403
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:41,390
help you out or at least point you in

1404
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:43,490
the right direction all right if anyone

1405
00:56:49,570 --> 00:56:45,440
else needs to get a hold of John now is

1406
00:56:52,630 --> 00:56:49,580
the time yes we have another caller

1407
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:52,640
thanks for the call Dave today you're

1408
00:56:56,350 --> 00:56:54,710
welcome and I was also calling to say hi

1409
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:56,360
to you Martin don't worry don't be

1410
00:57:00,250 --> 00:56:57,170
jealous

1411
00:57:01,750 --> 00:57:00,260
I know how caddie all right all right

1412
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:01,760
Dave thanks we got another caller on

1413
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:04,310
that guy's caller what's your first name

1414
00:57:13,870 --> 00:57:11,930
where you calling from I can barely hear

1415
00:57:17,410 --> 00:57:13,880
you Julia if you speak up a little bit

1416
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:17,420
yeah hi Martin hi I'm sorry for being a

1417
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:19,130
bad caller in the past I'm gonna try to

1418
00:57:24,460 --> 00:57:21,290
be a good caller now and I have a good

1419
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:24,470
question for John John I went to your

1420
00:57:31,260 --> 00:57:26,720
site and I searched for very

1421
00:57:34,270 --> 00:57:31,270
specifically these handwritten pages

1422
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:34,280
done by the World War two pilots of

1423
00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:37,370
their Foo Fighter sightings okay I've

1424
00:57:43,570 --> 00:57:40,760
seen a few of them yeah they're

1425
00:57:45,550 --> 00:57:43,580
excellent do you have those

1426
00:57:47,260 --> 00:57:45,560
it doesn't sound familiar though it

1427
00:57:48,700 --> 00:57:47,270
sounds like that that might be more in

1428
00:57:49,930 --> 00:57:48,710
the project blue book collection given

1429
00:57:52,900 --> 00:57:49,940
the time frame because most of that

1430
00:57:56,110 --> 00:57:52,910
stuff wound up in the Project Blue Book

1431
00:57:58,990 --> 00:57:56,120
collection which is estimated to be

1432
00:58:01,870 --> 00:57:59,000
anywhere from 60 to 80,000 pages at the

1433
00:58:04,300 --> 00:58:01,880
National Archives though specifically

1434
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:04,310
don't ring a bell to me though so I'm

1435
00:58:12,580 --> 00:58:08,810
not sure where to point yeah I've seen

1436
00:58:14,110 --> 00:58:12,590
them I saw them in a video and I didn't

1437
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:14,120
take screen prints of them I should what

1438
00:58:18,550 --> 00:58:16,880
there's about 10 pages that I read

1439
00:58:20,830 --> 00:58:18,560
there are all Foo Fighters sightings in

1440
00:58:24,340 --> 00:58:20,840
the daytime handwritten by pen and ink

1441
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:24,350
on paper by these pilots right

1442
00:58:28,810 --> 00:58:26,720
and and the thing the thing is these

1443
00:58:30,460 --> 00:58:28,820
were they these were daytime sightings

1444
00:58:32,860 --> 00:58:30,470
and that's exactly what I have seen

1445
00:58:35,740 --> 00:58:32,870
myself and they describe them perfectly

1446
00:58:37,450 --> 00:58:35,750
and exactly the same as what I saw right

1447
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:37,460
this is the value of it really and

1448
00:58:41,110 --> 00:58:38,930
they're in their own handwriting with

1449
00:58:43,870 --> 00:58:41,120
pen and ink so you can you can judge the

1450
00:58:46,180 --> 00:58:43,880
witness you know their writing style and

1451
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:46,190
all this really excellent but yeah I

1452
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:48,890
guess if that's if you don't have that

1453
00:58:52,210 --> 00:58:50,930
sort of thing off the top I mean I'll be

1454
00:58:54,010 --> 00:58:52,220
honest with you off the top of my head

1455
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:54,020
doesn't sound familiar if you found them

1456
00:58:58,570 --> 00:58:55,610
on my site I wouldn't be surprised

1457
00:59:00,580 --> 00:58:58,580
either because there's a lot but but

1458
00:59:02,470 --> 00:59:00,590
there there are a couple resources out

1459
00:59:03,970 --> 00:59:02,480
there I know I don't know if they would

1460
00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:03,980
have them but you might want a Google

1461
00:59:11,110 --> 00:59:07,910
project 1947 Jan Aldrich's site I know

1462
00:59:13,660 --> 00:59:11,120
that he I believe focuses on quite a few

1463
00:59:15,010 --> 00:59:13,670
of the documents from that era I'm not

1464
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:15,020
sure if those would be official records

1465
00:59:18,250 --> 00:59:16,370
that you're referencing or something

1466
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:18,260
that maybe was written up and collected

1467
00:59:23,170 --> 00:59:20,960
by a researcher so without screenshots

1468
00:59:24,460 --> 00:59:23,180
might be hard to determine but you might

1469
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:24,470
want to start there and see what kind of

1470
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:27,890
documents you come up with project 47

1471
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:30,370
project 1947 is there's the website

1472
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:32,690
thank you you're well thanks very much

1473
00:59:40,270 --> 00:59:36,170
sure all right thank you thanks for the

1474
00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:40,280
call so now I would like to ask you I

1475
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:44,390
also saw you were being interviewed in a

1476
00:59:51,810 --> 00:59:47,570
video when you were talking about red

1477
00:59:54,550 --> 00:59:51,820
flags of a tip and um first of all I

1478
00:59:56,710 --> 00:59:54,560
always forget exactly what a tip stands

1479
00:59:59,380 --> 00:59:56,720
for and because it's because people

1480
01:00:04,030 --> 00:59:59,390
confuse it for two different things

1481
01:00:07,350 --> 01:00:04,040
but but this is the the purported

1482
01:00:09,460 --> 01:00:07,360
government program to research

1483
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:09,470
unidentified well what they called

1484
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:13,610
aerial phenomena or something but what

1485
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:16,240
were the red when you went to research

1486
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:19,130
of this as much as you could you said

1487
01:00:22,300 --> 01:00:20,570
there were red flags and what are that

1488
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:22,310
what are some of those red flags sure

1489
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:23,930
yeah there's a quick context and to

1490
01:00:28,180 --> 01:00:25,850
answer your question about what a tip

1491
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:28,190
stood for it depends on what version of

1492
01:00:30,550 --> 01:00:29,570
the story that you hear the official

1493
01:00:33,700 --> 01:00:30,560
line

1494
01:00:38,110 --> 01:00:33,710
anyway is the advanced aerospace threat

1495
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:38,120
identification program the controversy

1496
01:00:41,980 --> 01:00:39,440
for a while was it was reported by the

1497
01:00:45,310 --> 01:00:41,990
media and the Pentagon was saying

1498
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:45,320
advanced aviation threat identification

1499
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:47,570
program so some confusion about what the

1500
01:00:52,660 --> 01:00:50,930
acronym was for I was the one that that

1501
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:52,670
came out with the Pentagon statement

1502
01:00:56,380 --> 01:00:53,810
first because they were the ones that I

1503
01:00:58,270 --> 01:00:56,390
was able to get ahold of first and so

1504
01:00:59,830 --> 01:00:58,280
I'm kind of tied to that controversy

1505
01:01:02,530 --> 01:00:59,840
that I was pushing one name over the

1506
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:02,540
other I was just showing the the the

1507
01:01:07,870 --> 01:01:05,330
contradiction and I kind of think it got

1508
01:01:09,790 --> 01:01:07,880
embellished in the internet blogosphere

1509
01:01:12,190 --> 01:01:09,800
a little bit about what the debate

1510
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:12,200
really was about the Defense

1511
01:01:16,990 --> 01:01:14,210
Intelligence Agency which is outside of

1512
01:01:20,050 --> 01:01:17,000
the Pentagon then told me it was the the

1513
01:01:23,020 --> 01:01:20,060
advanced aerospace threat identification

1514
01:01:25,380 --> 01:01:23,030
program what's really funny is the a lot

1515
01:01:28,420 --> 01:01:25,390
of the attackers towards me were saying

1516
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:28,430
well the Pentagon is saying through a

1517
01:01:32,620 --> 01:01:30,050
spokesperson and they don't know

1518
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:32,630
anything so why would you believe them

1519
01:01:37,930 --> 01:01:35,410
aerospace that name came from a DIA

1520
01:01:40,450 --> 01:01:37,940
spokesperson when I came out with that

1521
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:40,460
somebody else says aha see I told you

1522
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:42,170
it's like well wait a minute both of

1523
01:01:45,700 --> 01:01:43,280
them are spokespeople what are you

1524
01:01:48,490 --> 01:01:45,710
trying to argue with so it's a very kind

1525
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:48,500
of convoluted mess on what a tip was

1526
01:01:54,940 --> 01:01:51,200
really about this is that New York Times

1527
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:54,950
Politico Washington Post avalanche of

1528
01:02:03,220 --> 01:01:57,130
publicity that the program got in

1529
01:02:04,420 --> 01:02:03,230
December of 2017 and where I originally

1530
01:02:06,190 --> 01:02:04,430
I'm gonna be honest with you I was

1531
01:02:09,340 --> 01:02:06,200
really super excited about it I thought

1532
01:02:12,100 --> 01:02:09,350
it was very cool anybody who knows me

1533
01:02:13,930 --> 01:02:12,110
sees me publicly here's my talks

1534
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:13,940
whatever they know that I'm a big

1535
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:16,640
advocate for the fact that a cover-up is

1536
01:02:20,770 --> 01:02:18,650
there there's a lot of evidence for it

1537
01:02:24,340 --> 01:02:20,780
so when there was an active present-day

1538
01:02:26,050 --> 01:02:24,350
UFO program I mean I was all over it I

1539
01:02:30,180 --> 01:02:26,060
started filing FOIA requests I was

1540
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:30,190
working on a television show at the time

1541
01:02:35,650 --> 01:02:33,530
it was for a major Network I I'm I can't

1542
01:02:37,870 --> 01:02:35,660
say it just because it actually still

1543
01:02:39,850 --> 01:02:37,880
may go so I can't really say but it was

1544
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:39,860
something we'd all recognize and so I

1545
01:02:43,180 --> 01:02:41,450
was working on development for it and I

1546
01:02:44,500 --> 01:02:43,190
was able to get access to the Pentagon

1547
01:02:47,060 --> 01:02:44,510
public affairs office

1548
01:02:50,180 --> 01:02:47,070
almost immediately they started denying

1549
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:50,190
that the media stories were not what was

1550
01:02:55,070 --> 01:02:53,280
being done behind the scenes that a tip

1551
01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:55,080
was something else altogether

1552
01:03:00,320 --> 01:02:57,690
so with that quick groundwork that

1553
01:03:01,910 --> 01:03:00,330
started the red flags because on one

1554
01:03:04,700 --> 01:03:01,920
hand we were getting a story of what a

1555
01:03:07,099 --> 01:03:04,710
tip was and that the government slash

1556
01:03:10,820 --> 01:03:07,109
Pentagon approved

1557
01:03:12,890 --> 01:03:10,830
mr. Lewis Elizondo speaking about it but

1558
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:12,900
then when he starts speaking about it

1559
01:03:17,359 --> 01:03:14,880
and he says well there's a UFO aspect to

1560
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:17,369
it this is a secret Pentagon UFO study

1561
01:03:21,470 --> 01:03:18,690
as the media touted it

1562
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:21,480
the Pentagon's like no that's not it the

1563
01:03:26,300 --> 01:03:24,450
DIA said no that's not it and was saying

1564
01:03:27,770 --> 01:03:26,310
that it was embellished now we've talked

1565
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:27,780
about the government lies on your

1566
01:03:32,060 --> 01:03:29,730
program here for the last hour so I'm

1567
01:03:35,210 --> 01:03:32,070
open to the government lying what

1568
01:03:37,070 --> 01:03:35,220
doesn't fit is everything else as I

1569
01:03:39,410 --> 01:03:37,080
started researching not only with the

1570
01:03:43,220 --> 01:03:39,420
government but then what was being said

1571
01:03:45,650 --> 01:03:43,230
publicly about a tip things started not

1572
01:03:48,220 --> 01:03:45,660
to match up and I would say the most

1573
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:48,230
controversial thing that I've published

1574
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:51,930
was a timeline I know Alejandro Rojas

1575
01:03:57,740 --> 01:03:54,690
talked about a timeline as well

1576
01:04:01,010 --> 01:03:57,750
a couple weeks ago I had posted one that

1577
01:04:03,170 --> 01:04:01,020
used all of the key players of a tip and

1578
01:04:05,690 --> 01:04:03,180
this will encompass all of the red flags

1579
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:05,700
or most of them not all of them but most

1580
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:08,310
of them and I only used on this timeline

1581
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:12,210
mr. Luis Elizondo dr. Hal putt-off who

1582
01:04:16,970 --> 01:04:15,359
was also a key player in a tip by his

1583
01:04:22,730 --> 01:04:16,980
own admission but also it's well known

1584
01:04:25,849 --> 01:04:22,740
and not not not not disputed and the

1585
01:04:28,730 --> 01:04:25,859
media that had direct access to mr.

1586
01:04:31,579 --> 01:04:28,740
Elizondo dr. putt-off and to the Stars

1587
01:04:34,970 --> 01:04:31,589
Academy and I created this huge timeline

1588
01:04:37,940 --> 01:04:34,980
and it's a mess and why I bring that up

1589
01:04:39,950 --> 01:04:37,950
is that if everybody was out giving a

1590
01:04:41,870 --> 01:04:39,960
truthful narrative I'm not I'm not

1591
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:41,880
insinuating they're lying but if

1592
01:04:45,370 --> 01:04:43,650
everybody was just telling us a history

1593
01:04:48,770 --> 01:04:45,380
we wouldn't have such blatant

1594
01:04:50,540 --> 01:04:48,780
contradictions so my point was let's

1595
01:04:53,420 --> 01:04:50,550
take the government out of the equation

1596
01:04:55,220 --> 01:04:53,430
and just focus on the public figure

1597
01:04:58,370 --> 01:04:55,230
heads that were directly involved with a

1598
01:05:01,160 --> 01:04:58,380
tip and see what their story is

1599
01:05:04,580 --> 01:05:01,170
and it is near impossible actually it is

1600
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:04,590
impossible to make a fluid timeline now

1601
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:07,050
with respect to Alejandro Rojas I don't

1602
01:05:11,870 --> 01:05:09,330
want to take away from his work he put

1603
01:05:13,610 --> 01:05:11,880
together a timeline what I was listening

1604
01:05:17,330 --> 01:05:13,620
to in the beginning of your show was he

1605
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:17,340
only used mr. Luis Elizondo that's fine

1606
01:05:22,550 --> 01:05:19,530
if you only listen to one person you can

1607
01:05:24,380 --> 01:05:22,560
make a fluid timeline the problem is is

1608
01:05:26,330 --> 01:05:24,390
that there were multiple people involved

1609
01:05:29,330 --> 01:05:26,340
with the a tip program including dr.

1610
01:05:31,010 --> 01:05:29,340
putt-off and Senator Harry Reid who I

1611
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:31,020
also used on the timeline which I failed

1612
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:32,880
to mention when you add in those other

1613
01:05:38,300 --> 01:05:36,090
players it's a mess so if we're

1614
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:38,310
excluding them why are we excluding them

1615
01:05:43,100 --> 01:05:40,050
they were directly involved and had a

1616
01:05:44,510 --> 01:05:43,110
hand in it so my my role I don't

1617
01:05:47,150 --> 01:05:44,520
consider myself a journalist I never

1618
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:47,160
have I consider myself a researcher and

1619
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:50,130
an investigator so for me to make sense

1620
01:05:54,740 --> 01:05:52,050
of all of this my whole point was

1621
01:05:56,900 --> 01:05:54,750
because it's not popular to go against

1622
01:05:59,030 --> 01:05:56,910
you know the going story of the day and

1623
01:06:01,430 --> 01:05:59,040
I know that but I'm not here to be

1624
01:06:02,890 --> 01:06:01,440
popular I'm here to be accurate and I

1625
01:06:05,870 --> 01:06:02,900
think a lot of people then go

1626
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:05,880
Greenwald's trying to you know take down

1627
01:06:11,690 --> 01:06:10,050
whatever or go against so-and-so or he's

1628
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:11,700
trying to insinuate and that's not it

1629
01:06:15,740 --> 01:06:13,290
it's about getting to the root of what

1630
01:06:17,870 --> 01:06:15,750
the story really is and for me when you

1631
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:17,880
look at what we are being told it

1632
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:20,400
doesn't match up and so that's kind of

1633
01:06:23,420 --> 01:06:21,690
the nutshell I can go into more

1634
01:06:25,700 --> 01:06:23,430
specifics if you'd like but that's

1635
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:25,710
really the nutshell of the red flags is

1636
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:27,690
that the basic fundamentals of what a

1637
01:06:34,550 --> 01:06:31,440
tip is told to us is contradictory to

1638
01:06:36,500 --> 01:06:34,560
what the key players are saying but then

1639
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:36,510
another aspect that's not part of the

1640
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:38,370
timeline but I'll give it in my answer

1641
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:41,970
is that when you look at decades of

1642
01:06:50,090 --> 01:06:44,970
history when it comes to true UFO

1643
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:50,100
documents true UFO programs true UFO

1644
01:06:57,140 --> 01:06:53,730
cases nothing matches up it's like a

1645
01:06:59,630 --> 01:06:57,150
completely different type of story so it

1646
01:07:01,880 --> 01:06:59,640
was it a UFO program I don't know I'm

1647
01:07:04,220 --> 01:07:01,890
not saying it's not I'm saying that

1648
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:04,230
evidence leads me to believe it probably

1649
01:07:08,260 --> 01:07:07,170
wasn't okay well I do want to I do want

1650
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:08,270
to talk a little more about

1651
01:07:12,490 --> 01:07:10,610
that in just a minute right now we have

1652
01:07:15,340 --> 01:07:12,500
another caller on the line now get right

1653
01:07:18,970 --> 01:07:15,350
back to that after this call caller your

1654
01:07:21,430 --> 01:07:18,980
first name where you calling from as the

1655
01:07:22,630 --> 01:07:21,440
thoughts of richness thank you for your

1656
01:07:24,610 --> 01:07:22,640
patience I know you've been hanging on a

1657
01:07:28,090 --> 01:07:24,620
long time you have a question for our

1658
01:07:31,570 --> 01:07:28,100
guest yeah that's a kind of a two-part

1659
01:07:35,050 --> 01:07:31,580
question one is a job over the years

1660
01:07:38,620 --> 01:07:35,060
that you've been doing this what would

1661
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:38,630
you say is the most interesting document

1662
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:40,970
that you have gotten a response on

1663
01:07:47,620 --> 01:07:44,960
regarding the UFO topic and the second

1664
01:07:51,310 --> 01:07:47,630
part of the question is same thing but

1665
01:07:54,780 --> 01:07:51,320
like non UFO really did like MKULTRA or

1666
01:07:57,940 --> 01:07:54,790
some other secret they're keeping sure

1667
01:08:00,610 --> 01:07:57,950
it's always hard for me to pick one UFO

1668
01:08:02,950 --> 01:08:00,620
document I did talk about 10 - to 0-6 so

1669
01:08:06,100 --> 01:08:02,960
I won't repeat that that is one of my

1670
01:08:08,650 --> 01:08:06,110
favorites I would also bring up as a big

1671
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:08,660
honorable mention that 1976 Iran

1672
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:11,210
incident document it will always hold a

1673
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:12,770
special place in my heart that's what

1674
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:15,290
got me interested in this that's why I'm

1675
01:08:20,769 --> 01:08:17,210
sitting in this chair talking with

1676
01:08:23,650 --> 01:08:20,779
Martin and still involved in a nutshell

1677
01:08:26,050 --> 01:08:23,660
the 76 Iran incident showed technology

1678
01:08:29,050 --> 01:08:26,060
in 1976 that we really don't have today

1679
01:08:34,230 --> 01:08:29,060
and when you read that in a government

1680
01:08:37,570 --> 01:08:34,240
document that is extraordinary I mean a

1681
01:08:40,090 --> 01:08:37,580
UFO turned into four separate UFOs one

1682
01:08:42,010 --> 01:08:40,100
of which they believe either landed on

1683
01:08:45,220 --> 01:08:42,020
the ground or hovered directly above it

1684
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:45,230
it shut down two f4 phantom jets

1685
01:08:50,470 --> 01:08:48,890
seemingly strategically it is an amazing

1686
01:08:51,820 --> 01:08:50,480
document but here's what I'll pull up

1687
01:08:54,370 --> 01:08:51,830
because I invite everybody to read it

1688
01:08:56,349 --> 01:08:54,380
it's four pages I could give you the URL

1689
01:08:59,050 --> 01:08:56,359
I have a page dedicated just for that

1690
01:09:01,059 --> 01:08:59,060
case but here's what's fascinating about

1691
01:09:03,550 --> 01:09:01,069
that document and it's something that I

1692
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:03,560
want everybody really really to sit and

1693
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:05,810
think about and the fact is that you see

1694
01:09:11,140 --> 01:09:08,319
this extraordinary document and it is

1695
01:09:13,329 --> 01:09:11,150
unclassified that is an extraordinary

1696
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:13,339
piece of evidence because then when you

1697
01:09:18,430 --> 01:09:15,650
add in the fact that the government has

1698
01:09:21,669 --> 01:09:18,440
not 10 not 20 not a couple hundred but

1699
01:09:23,049 --> 01:09:21,679
literally thousands of UFO documents

1700
01:09:25,329 --> 01:09:23,059
that are considered all the way up

1701
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:25,339
through top secret that still to this

1702
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:27,170
day are considered classified and they

1703
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:29,449
will not release the information they

1704
01:09:34,349 --> 01:09:31,369
will go to the lengths to say OP we lost

1705
01:09:37,419 --> 01:09:34,359
it or oops we shredded it or whatever

1706
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:37,429
what's underneath that blacked-out

1707
01:09:42,459 --> 01:09:40,130
information those black boxes if you can

1708
01:09:44,829 --> 01:09:42,469
read the 1976 Iran Anson and there's a

1709
01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:44,839
lot more but if you just focus in on

1710
01:09:48,759 --> 01:09:46,400
that one document the fact that they did

1711
01:09:51,579 --> 01:09:48,769
not classify it I don't know if that was

1712
01:09:53,589 --> 01:09:51,589
a mistake or not but think about what

1713
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:53,599
really could be classified top secret

1714
01:09:58,770 --> 01:09:55,760
when it comes to the UFO phenomenon and

1715
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:58,780
I think that that's a largely overlooked

1716
01:10:03,279 --> 01:10:01,280
aspect to that document and to this

1717
01:10:04,689 --> 01:10:03,289
whole field when it comes to government

1718
01:10:07,689 --> 01:10:04,699
records because there is extraordinary

1719
01:10:09,969 --> 01:10:07,699
evidence to support not only to cover-up

1720
01:10:12,549 --> 01:10:09,979
but you don't have many definitions of

1721
01:10:14,770 --> 01:10:12,559
what the UFO phenomenon really is until

1722
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:14,780
you start adding in an intelligent

1723
01:10:19,449 --> 01:10:17,090
civilization and that's what I actually

1724
01:10:21,669 --> 01:10:19,459
end my book with is kind of going into I

1725
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:21,679
call it debunking the debunkers where

1726
01:10:26,020 --> 01:10:23,449
you deal with those plausible

1727
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:26,030
explanations of what UFOs are what they

1728
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:28,130
could be and really kind of try and

1729
01:10:32,679 --> 01:10:30,010
drive home that that just can't be

1730
01:10:35,290 --> 01:10:32,689
reality so that being said that's the

1731
01:10:37,660 --> 01:10:35,300
UFO document the other one non

1732
01:10:41,620 --> 01:10:37,670
ufo-related also a very tough one I

1733
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:41,630
would say though the MKULTRA experiments

1734
01:10:47,620 --> 01:10:45,489
to me are definitely top of the list the

1735
01:10:49,899 --> 01:10:47,630
just just to kind of give you a one

1736
01:10:52,660 --> 01:10:49,909
specific example actually to very

1737
01:10:56,140 --> 01:10:52,670
quickly from the thousands of documents

1738
01:10:57,699 --> 01:10:56,150
that I got late last year that literally

1739
01:11:02,310 --> 01:10:57,709
went viral on the internet when I

1740
01:11:04,239 --> 01:11:02,320
published them the biggest I would say

1741
01:11:08,830 --> 01:11:04,249
documents that came out of that were

1742
01:11:11,979 --> 01:11:08,840
twofold one was a successful report

1743
01:11:16,179 --> 01:11:11,989
about a successful attempt to implant

1744
01:11:18,969 --> 01:11:16,189
chips into dogs and they were successful

1745
01:11:23,049 --> 01:11:18,979
in remote controlling the animals way

1746
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:23,059
back in the 1960s with the CIA to be

1747
01:11:29,350 --> 01:11:27,530
able to do that in the 1960s that paved

1748
01:11:31,179 --> 01:11:29,360
the way they called this research

1749
01:11:33,470 --> 01:11:31,189
behavioral modification they did not

1750
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:33,480
connect it to MKULTRA

1751
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:35,760
why that's important is that there is a

1752
01:11:41,900 --> 01:11:39,450
whole slew of additional projects that I

1753
01:11:44,150 --> 01:11:41,910
know now are there that did not deal

1754
01:11:47,180 --> 01:11:44,160
with MKULTRA and mind control and the

1755
01:11:49,190 --> 01:11:47,190
LSD experiments that we know of behind

1756
01:11:51,860 --> 01:11:49,200
the scenes they were doing experiments

1757
01:11:54,490 --> 01:11:51,870
and successful ones at that on animals

1758
01:11:56,930 --> 01:11:54,500
as far as I could tell they made six

1759
01:11:59,630 --> 01:11:56,940
remote-controlled dogs they even have

1760
01:12:00,950 --> 01:11:59,640
very poor photographs and diagrams but

1761
01:12:03,950 --> 01:12:00,960
they showed that they were actually able

1762
01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:03,960
to make the dog under their own commands

1763
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:05,760
do what they wanted turn left turn right

1764
01:12:10,610 --> 01:12:08,730
go up stop sit so on and you look at

1765
01:12:15,250 --> 01:12:10,620
that and that the implications behind

1766
01:12:18,620 --> 01:12:15,260
that from what 50 60 years ago plus is

1767
01:12:20,450 --> 01:12:18,630
extraordinary so when you add in the

1768
01:12:21,890 --> 01:12:20,460
ability for them to do it with humans

1769
01:12:23,420 --> 01:12:21,900
that's frightening

1770
01:12:26,900 --> 01:12:23,430
the second document I'll bring up

1771
01:12:30,740 --> 01:12:26,910
quickly is a one specific document has

1772
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:30,750
programs listed which do mention MKULTRA

1773
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:32,880
and a couple other ones but quite a few

1774
01:12:37,910 --> 01:12:35,010
of them are blacked out and what that

1775
01:12:39,530 --> 01:12:37,920
means is is that the CIA for years has

1776
01:12:41,570 --> 01:12:39,540
publicly said you guys know everything

1777
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:41,580
we released everything we did the

1778
01:12:45,230 --> 01:12:43,040
congressional hearing many moons ago

1779
01:12:47,420 --> 01:12:45,240
it's all out on the table that's our

1780
01:12:48,830 --> 01:12:47,430
dirty laundry leave us alone and yet

1781
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:48,840
this document proves that there are

1782
01:12:54,500 --> 01:12:52,080
multiple project names with descriptions

1783
01:12:56,480 --> 01:12:54,510
that are 100% classified that they don't

1784
01:12:58,990 --> 01:12:56,490
want to tell us about and why that's

1785
01:13:02,210 --> 01:12:59,000
important is that according to their own

1786
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:02,220
writing to me they do not consider this

1787
01:13:06,860 --> 01:13:04,650
material part of MKULTRA which means

1788
01:13:09,260 --> 01:13:06,870
that there is a slew of additional

1789
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:09,270
material that probably has never seen

1790
01:13:14,660 --> 01:13:12,080
the light of day that would scare the

1791
01:13:17,930 --> 01:13:14,670
most devoted fans to Stephen King

1792
01:13:20,030 --> 01:13:17,940
because they are extraordinary with

1793
01:13:21,830 --> 01:13:20,040
their implication and the fact that they

1794
01:13:24,230 --> 01:13:21,840
were successful putting chips into

1795
01:13:27,230 --> 01:13:24,240
brains it adds a whole new perspective

1796
01:13:29,390 --> 01:13:27,240
to agencies like DARPA the Defense

1797
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:29,400
Advanced Research Projects Agency that

1798
01:13:35,210 --> 01:13:32,250
is doing research just like this in

1799
01:13:36,590 --> 01:13:35,220
plain sight of implanting brains and

1800
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:36,600
connecting brains with artificial

1801
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:39,690
intelligence and artificial limbs tie

1802
01:13:42,979 --> 01:13:41,610
that back to what they were doing 5060

1803
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:42,989
years ago

1804
01:13:47,359 --> 01:13:44,880
the possibilities are endless on what

1805
01:13:49,399 --> 01:13:47,369
they can do right now that's all those

1806
01:13:51,469 --> 01:13:49,409
would be a couple couple I tried to make

1807
01:13:53,979 --> 01:13:51,479
it quick but a couple examples yeah

1808
01:13:56,149 --> 01:13:53,989
great well hey thanks for the call

1809
01:13:58,299 --> 01:13:56,159
hey Thank You Martin thanks for your

1810
01:14:01,520 --> 01:13:58,309
work John thank you I appreciate it all

1811
01:14:03,709 --> 01:14:01,530
right so before the call we were talking

1812
01:14:08,359 --> 01:14:03,719
about a tip and your your thoughts on

1813
01:14:11,299 --> 01:14:08,369
them and I understand what the deep you

1814
01:14:14,060 --> 01:14:11,309
know research that you do and you look

1815
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:14,070
at history in the history of what you

1816
01:14:19,969 --> 01:14:16,610
have seen over the years and this is not

1817
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:19,979
apparently lining up so so the question

1818
01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:23,570
and it's speculation but do you

1819
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:26,729
speculate that well who would Luis

1820
01:14:33,140 --> 01:14:28,650
Allah's Ando be then in this case a

1821
01:14:35,419 --> 01:14:33,150
disinformation situation yeah and and I

1822
01:14:37,250 --> 01:14:35,429
I don't make that that speculation I

1823
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:37,260
don't know to be honest with you and I I

1824
01:14:42,169 --> 01:14:39,449
mean he seems like a very nice guy he

1825
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:42,179
seems genuine yeah do I want to say he's

1826
01:14:46,279 --> 01:14:43,920
lying to you no because it's quite

1827
01:14:48,140 --> 01:14:46,289
possible the government is lying what's

1828
01:14:51,649 --> 01:14:48,150
interesting though is is what he is

1829
01:14:54,589 --> 01:14:51,659
saying put on a time line by itself I

1830
01:14:57,199 --> 01:14:54,599
believe would still contradict each

1831
01:14:59,959 --> 01:14:57,209
other meaning just using that as a

1832
01:15:02,689 --> 01:14:59,969
source and I believe mr. Alejandro Rojas

1833
01:15:04,969 --> 01:15:02,699
who did the the timeline primarily used

1834
01:15:07,100 --> 01:15:04,979
him as a source and that's okay the

1835
01:15:09,229 --> 01:15:07,110
problem is is he is not just the only

1836
01:15:12,580 --> 01:15:09,239
source out there so now we have to ask

1837
01:15:15,500 --> 01:15:12,590
ourselves what is going on

1838
01:15:17,859 --> 01:15:15,510
Alejandro had mentioned 2007 as a start

1839
01:15:21,020 --> 01:15:17,869
date that completely contradicts

1840
01:15:23,750 --> 01:15:21,030
everybody and the reason I say that is

1841
01:15:27,739 --> 01:15:23,760
according to mr. Elizondo a tip didn't

1842
01:15:29,839 --> 01:15:27,749
start until 2008 the contracts that were

1843
01:15:33,140 --> 01:15:29,849
posted publicly that anybody can access

1844
01:15:36,799 --> 01:15:33,150
were not posted until August of 2008 so

1845
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:36,809
what was going on in 2007 the New York

1846
01:15:42,589 --> 01:15:39,449
Times said a tip started in 2007 and

1847
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:42,599
they saw the contracts to prove it the

1848
01:15:47,179 --> 01:15:44,610
problem is is that contradicts their own

1849
01:15:50,209 --> 01:15:47,189
source for the story that it was all set

1850
01:15:50,390 --> 01:15:50,219
not a tip that started in 2000 or excuse

1851
01:15:56,660 --> 01:15:50,400
me

1852
01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:56,670
first but not until 2008 if

1853
01:16:02,209 --> 01:15:59,520
I saw contracts it wouldn't have said a

1854
01:16:03,110 --> 01:16:02,219
tip it didn't exist so the question mark

1855
01:16:05,450 --> 01:16:03,120
is what did they see

1856
01:16:08,810 --> 01:16:05,460
so it's not me trying to pick on

1857
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:08,820
journalists or mr. Elizondo or the

1858
01:16:13,939 --> 01:16:11,730
government it's not me doing that at all

1859
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:13,949
it's showing there are blatant

1860
01:16:19,459 --> 01:16:15,810
contradictions sometimes as easy as a

1861
01:16:22,430 --> 01:16:19,469
date or a name other times like really

1862
01:16:25,580 --> 01:16:22,440
important aspects to this story

1863
01:16:27,650 --> 01:16:25,590
that just don't match up at all so that

1864
01:16:30,620 --> 01:16:27,660
to me is the red flag it's like well why

1865
01:16:31,930 --> 01:16:30,630
can't we just get a one side of the

1866
01:16:34,669 --> 01:16:31,940
story

1867
01:16:36,890 --> 01:16:34,679
again it's not popular and I get that

1868
01:16:38,450 --> 01:16:36,900
and and I get a lot of heat for it and I

1869
01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:38,460
understand that because I'm a big

1870
01:16:43,100 --> 01:16:40,800
advocate for the government is covering

1871
01:16:45,050 --> 01:16:43,110
this up so we just have to assume that

1872
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:45,060
the government is covering this up

1873
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:48,090
the problem though is again you can take

1874
01:16:52,100 --> 01:16:49,920
them out of the equation and you still

1875
01:16:54,979 --> 01:16:52,110
have the majority of the red flags left

1876
01:16:59,900 --> 01:16:54,989
over do they have easy explanations and

1877
01:17:01,430 --> 01:16:59,910
answers possibly I'm open to that but

1878
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:01,440
you have to ask some really tough

1879
01:17:06,650 --> 01:17:03,210
questions that I don't think people are

1880
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:06,660
asking right now and you know another

1881
01:17:11,930 --> 01:17:09,650
really unpopular notion to this is

1882
01:17:15,140 --> 01:17:11,940
Bigelow Aerospace and how he got the

1883
01:17:17,900 --> 01:17:15,150
contract and what was the timeframe that

1884
01:17:21,610 --> 01:17:17,910
he got it and that brings up a slew of

1885
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:21,620
other contradictions to the story that

1886
01:17:25,340 --> 01:17:24,000
Senator Harry Reid actually I'm more

1887
01:17:27,590 --> 01:17:25,350
than one occasion addressed that this

1888
01:17:30,770 --> 01:17:27,600
was not a sweetheart deal it was posed

1889
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:30,780
as in public and that Bass was created

1890
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:33,449
specifically once they won the contract

1891
01:17:38,209 --> 01:17:36,690
for a tip right that sounds great but if

1892
01:17:42,050 --> 01:17:38,219
you actually go to the Nevada Secretary

1893
01:17:45,229 --> 01:17:42,060
of State bass was actually created in

1894
01:17:48,709 --> 01:17:45,239
January the bid solicitation was not

1895
01:17:51,130 --> 01:17:48,719
until August of that year in 2008 so

1896
01:17:53,209 --> 01:17:51,140
either he had foreknowledge or he just

1897
01:17:55,310 --> 01:17:53,219
miraculously thought let's just create

1898
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:55,320
this LLC and hopefully one day there

1899
01:17:59,780 --> 01:17:56,850
will be some kind of research program

1900
01:18:02,689 --> 01:17:59,790
that we can tie it to or the reporting

1901
01:18:05,900 --> 01:18:02,699
was wrong right again not me picking on

1902
01:18:08,150 --> 01:18:05,910
anybody it's we can't have it always so

1903
01:18:10,830 --> 01:18:08,160
for me as an investigator and someone

1904
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:10,840
who's very excited for this story

1905
01:18:16,420 --> 01:18:14,090
it just doesn't match up and and I will

1906
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:16,430
just add one more thing for the record

1907
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:19,370
is that I believe what we have been led

1908
01:18:24,820 --> 01:18:21,410
to believe a tip is as the secret UFO

1909
01:18:26,980 --> 01:18:24,830
study I believe should exist I fully

1910
01:18:29,650 --> 01:18:26,990
support it one thing I do in the book

1911
01:18:32,470 --> 01:18:29,660
and and do in public lectures and even

1912
01:18:35,710 --> 01:18:32,480
today is that I try and show that there

1913
01:18:37,510 --> 01:18:35,720
is a huge national security threat to

1914
01:18:39,250 --> 01:18:37,520
this phenomena whatever it is I

1915
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:39,260
personally use the plural version I

1916
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:41,570
believe there's multiple facets to the

1917
01:18:46,300 --> 01:18:44,810
UFO phenomena and I believe that there

1918
01:18:48,670 --> 01:18:46,310
is a threat to national security that

1919
01:18:50,380 --> 01:18:48,680
has started through the 40s and 50s goes

1920
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:50,390
all the way to today I believe that that

1921
01:18:57,100 --> 01:18:52,730
is irrefutable so I think something like

1922
01:19:01,840 --> 01:18:57,110
a tip as a UFO reporting program should

1923
01:19:04,060 --> 01:19:01,850
exist but I don't my biggest fear and I

1924
01:19:06,300 --> 01:19:04,070
think that that everybody who takes this

1925
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:06,310
topic seriously should have this fear is

1926
01:19:10,660 --> 01:19:08,690
that if it turns out that this was

1927
01:19:13,930 --> 01:19:10,670
overly embellished or not what we are

1928
01:19:17,740 --> 01:19:13,940
led to believe the media has shifted

1929
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:17,750
with taking UFOs more seriously if it

1930
01:19:22,510 --> 01:19:19,610
comes out that this wasn't over

1931
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:22,520
embellished story or not true or I you

1932
01:19:26,230 --> 01:19:24,170
know I again I don't know what the end

1933
01:19:27,910 --> 01:19:26,240
game is but if it turns out that it's

1934
01:19:29,860 --> 01:19:27,920
not what we have been led to believe and

1935
01:19:32,620 --> 01:19:29,870
these red flags are legitimate and they

1936
01:19:34,570 --> 01:19:32,630
don't have easy answers the next time

1937
01:19:37,150 --> 01:19:34,580
that important evidence shows us so

1938
01:19:39,010 --> 01:19:37,160
that's irrefutable the media is not

1939
01:19:40,390 --> 01:19:39,020
going to take that gamble again right

1940
01:19:43,630 --> 01:19:40,400
they don't want any caught with with

1941
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:43,640
with with PI on their face and and

1942
01:19:47,050 --> 01:19:45,410
Brunning front-page stories about

1943
01:19:49,900 --> 01:19:47,060
something that ultimately wasn't true

1944
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:49,910
that's my fear and and that's not me

1945
01:19:55,330 --> 01:19:52,610
being trying to inject myself in the

1946
01:19:57,880 --> 01:19:55,340
story that's a fear that I think that

1947
01:20:00,310 --> 01:19:57,890
the field should have and and a concern

1948
01:20:02,620 --> 01:20:00,320
that we should have it's better to deal

1949
01:20:04,870 --> 01:20:02,630
with these tough questions as a UFO

1950
01:20:07,750 --> 01:20:04,880
community I mean there's the it's called

1951
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:07,760
a community for a reason figure out what

1952
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:10,370
these red flag solutions are and then

1953
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:12,290
branch out so when somebody else attacks

1954
01:20:17,290 --> 01:20:14,210
us who really doesn't care about the UFO

1955
01:20:20,380 --> 01:20:17,300
community we have an answer lined up but

1956
01:20:22,510 --> 01:20:20,390
sadly you know how many it's well over a

1957
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:22,520
year since we've learned about this

1958
01:20:25,510 --> 01:20:23,690
program we

1959
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:25,520
still don't have answers and my

1960
01:20:30,220 --> 01:20:28,010
intention with that timeline was to show

1961
01:20:32,710 --> 01:20:30,230
these are the key players these are the

1962
01:20:35,050 --> 01:20:32,720
key outlets that have given you the

1963
01:20:38,050 --> 01:20:35,060
information from the media based on

1964
01:20:40,180 --> 01:20:38,060
these key players and nothing matches up

1965
01:20:43,210 --> 01:20:40,190
and it's a mess I call it a mess well

1966
01:20:46,570 --> 01:20:43,220
well I was very thankful that when the

1967
01:20:48,310 --> 01:20:46,580
Roswell slides so called slides came out

1968
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:48,320
that they didn't get the media coverage

1969
01:20:52,030 --> 01:20:50,810
can you imagine yeah that would have

1970
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:52,040
been a real mess there I'll tell you

1971
01:20:55,090 --> 01:20:54,080
that we have a caller we have so Nelson

1972
01:20:56,950 --> 01:20:55,100
trying to call in as well

1973
01:20:59,920 --> 01:20:56,960
caller on the line your first name where

1974
01:21:02,320 --> 01:20:59,930
you're calling from hi this is Andy from

1975
01:21:04,900 --> 01:21:02,330
Stratford Connecticut hi Andy thanks for

1976
01:21:08,230 --> 01:21:04,910
your patience and on for a while sure

1977
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:08,240
yeah my question kind of ties into

1978
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:11,330
John's last thoughts on the government

1979
01:21:18,370 --> 01:21:15,290
revealing what they know and it always

1980
01:21:23,350 --> 01:21:18,380
makes me wonder calling to mind the a

1981
01:21:25,660 --> 01:21:23,360
tip and the recent tic-tac UFO where the

1982
01:21:27,270 --> 01:21:25,670
Navy is sort of condoning the release of

1983
01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:27,280
the footage and acknowledging that

1984
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:30,560
something inexplicable happened do you

1985
01:21:35,740 --> 01:21:33,920
think that I ties into the overall theme

1986
01:21:38,440 --> 01:21:35,750
for the last few decades which has been

1987
01:21:42,790 --> 01:21:38,450
just cover-ups it's all cover-up denial

1988
01:21:46,660 --> 01:21:42,800
and and misinformation is this are we

1989
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:46,670
seeing a change in their attitude going

1990
01:21:51,850 --> 01:21:50,210
forward in your opinion or is it just a

1991
01:21:56,770 --> 01:21:51,860
case of the right hand and not knowing

1992
01:21:58,450 --> 01:21:56,780
what the left hands doing up there thank

1993
01:21:58,630 --> 01:21:58,460
you thanks for the call all right thanks

1994
01:22:00,910 --> 01:21:58,640
guys

1995
01:22:03,310 --> 01:22:00,920
good show thank you thank you yeah it's

1996
01:22:05,830 --> 01:22:03,320
a hard it's a hard one to answer and the

1997
01:22:07,180 --> 01:22:05,840
if I understood you correctly I mean

1998
01:22:09,310 --> 01:22:07,190
there's a couple things about the videos

1999
01:22:11,290 --> 01:22:09,320
first let me say that when military

2000
01:22:13,930 --> 01:22:11,300
pilots come forward with a story like

2001
01:22:14,500 --> 01:22:13,940
commander flavor and those from the

2002
01:22:17,440 --> 01:22:14,510
Nimitz

2003
01:22:19,450 --> 01:22:17,450
that's extraordinary no one should bat

2004
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:19,460
an eye in that if it was one person then

2005
01:22:23,500 --> 01:22:21,770
maybe we can scrutinize it there's a lot

2006
01:22:25,480 --> 01:22:23,510
of people that were involved in that

2007
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:25,490
that have come forward and I think it

2008
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:27,170
deserves a second look

2009
01:22:30,970 --> 01:22:29,810
in regards specifically to the video and

2010
01:22:32,410 --> 01:22:30,980
again this is where I'm not sure if I

2011
01:22:34,480 --> 01:22:32,420
understood it quite correctly on what

2012
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:34,490
you were asking but it's important to

2013
01:22:37,530 --> 01:22:35,810
note that the US government's official

2014
01:22:40,350 --> 01:22:37,540
stances they never really

2015
01:22:41,850 --> 01:22:40,360
those videos according to to the Stars

2016
01:22:43,670 --> 01:22:41,860
Academy those three videos were

2017
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:43,680
officially Declassified and released

2018
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:46,570
obviously that's a huge contradiction we

2019
01:22:51,450 --> 01:22:48,970
can paint a very solid irrefutable

2020
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:51,460
timeline of the United States government

2021
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:53,290
and military lying about this topic so

2022
01:22:57,690 --> 01:22:55,330
I'm not opposed to the fact that they

2023
01:23:00,150 --> 01:22:57,700
are just not being truthful what

2024
01:23:03,090 --> 01:23:00,160
concerns me is the fact that to the

2025
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:03,100
Stars Academy talks about what they call

2026
01:23:07,170 --> 01:23:04,570
a chain of evidence

2027
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:07,180
document that supports that these were

2028
01:23:13,350 --> 01:23:09,690
officially released and Declassified I

2029
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:13,360
if and and I I don't I don't want to

2030
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:14,890
speak for them but I'm pretty sure that

2031
01:23:18,990 --> 01:23:17,170
there have said in the past that they

2032
01:23:20,790 --> 01:23:19,000
have those documents on their website

2033
01:23:24,150 --> 01:23:20,800
the last I looked at said that those

2034
01:23:25,950 --> 01:23:24,160
videos come with that documentation the

2035
01:23:28,590 --> 01:23:25,960
problem is is they won't show it to you

2036
01:23:31,590 --> 01:23:28,600
and I want to know why that's a big red

2037
01:23:33,690 --> 01:23:31,600
flag for me it's do I have doubts that

2038
01:23:35,700 --> 01:23:33,700
the videos are real not really I would

2039
01:23:38,310 --> 01:23:35,710
probably bet money that they are real

2040
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:38,320
the question mark is why the secrecy

2041
01:23:44,370 --> 01:23:41,530
from an organization wanting to end the

2042
01:23:46,110 --> 01:23:44,380
secrecy if they have those documents

2043
01:23:48,540 --> 01:23:46,120
they are not classified

2044
01:23:50,850 --> 01:23:48,550
that's not how security oaths work when

2045
01:23:53,100 --> 01:23:50,860
you sign an NDA or a security oath

2046
01:23:53,940 --> 01:23:53,110
you can't take classified information as

2047
01:23:56,330 --> 01:23:53,950
a souvenir

2048
01:24:00,480 --> 01:23:56,340
right you have to leave the classified

2049
01:24:00,990 --> 01:24:00,490
information there and you can't take it

2050
01:24:02,820 --> 01:24:01,000
home with you

2051
01:24:05,550 --> 01:24:02,830
so I do not believe that it is

2052
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:05,560
classified at all if they have it if

2053
01:24:10,530 --> 01:24:07,690
they don't have it the question mark is

2054
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:10,540
why why wouldn't they have any type of

2055
01:24:16,940 --> 01:24:13,210
release record to show that an official

2056
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:16,950
video from a US military jet is

2057
01:24:21,210 --> 01:24:19,570
unclassified or Declassified there

2058
01:24:23,610 --> 01:24:21,220
there's a there is a difference between

2059
01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:23,620
Declassified and unclassified so there's

2060
01:24:28,140 --> 01:24:25,360
a lot of clarification that's needed

2061
01:24:30,950 --> 01:24:28,150
there that's never been addressed going

2062
01:24:33,420 --> 01:24:30,960
back to your question is there a change

2063
01:24:36,030 --> 01:24:33,430
it's hard to tell I mean if they're

2064
01:24:39,180 --> 01:24:36,040
lying then well the the pattern

2065
01:24:40,710 --> 01:24:39,190
continues if they're being honest this

2066
01:24:42,540 --> 01:24:40,720
is something that a lot of people don't

2067
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:42,550
want to deal with even though we can

2068
01:24:51,060 --> 01:24:46,090
prove a long history of the government

2069
01:24:51,300 --> 01:24:51,070
lying the reality is the government has

2070
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:51,310
acts

2071
01:24:55,740 --> 01:24:52,930
even truthful more times than they lied

2072
01:24:58,650 --> 01:24:55,750
I know that's hard some people don't

2073
01:25:01,020 --> 01:24:58,660
want to realize but that is true it's

2074
01:25:02,580 --> 01:25:01,030
historically documented so in that

2075
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:02,590
respect how do we know when they're

2076
01:25:07,170 --> 01:25:05,170
lying we can't go to a place where we

2077
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:07,180
just assume up the military's lying to

2078
01:25:10,650 --> 01:25:09,130
you up the government's lying how do you

2079
01:25:12,330 --> 01:25:10,660
know that they're lying they're talking

2080
01:25:15,450 --> 01:25:12,340
you know we can't go there that's a very

2081
01:25:18,510 --> 01:25:15,460
scary place to be in we have to have

2082
01:25:22,380 --> 01:25:18,520
some faith in those that we elect and

2083
01:25:24,630 --> 01:25:22,390
those that are kind of handling the the

2084
01:25:29,700 --> 01:25:24,640
big picture so to speak so is there a

2085
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:29,710
change I think not really but I'm eager

2086
01:25:35,220 --> 01:25:31,810
to see when the documents do get

2087
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:35,230
released about a tip on what it really

2088
01:25:41,130 --> 01:25:38,650
was but on that note I think the waters

2089
01:25:43,980 --> 01:25:41,140
are so muddy that no matter what is

2090
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:43,990
released I don't think those believers I

2091
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:46,690
and supporters of to the Stars Academy

2092
01:25:50,460 --> 01:25:48,490
and the fact that a tip was a UFO

2093
01:25:52,020 --> 01:25:50,470
program if documents are released to

2094
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:52,030
show that it wasn't they won't believe

2095
01:25:57,390 --> 01:25:54,370
in anyway I think the line and the sand

2096
01:26:00,510 --> 01:25:57,400
has been drawn quite firmly so no matter

2097
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:00,520
what comes out of actually it's just not

2098
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:02,290
going to be taken seriously and that's a

2099
01:26:07,500 --> 01:26:05,290
that's a shame well yeah I do want to

2100
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:07,510
talk a little bit more about those

2101
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:11,050
videos by the way I have I have some

2102
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:13,930
some of the two latest people to come

2103
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:17,410
forward on the USS Nimitz case they're

2104
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:18,850
coming up at the end of the month on the

2105
01:26:24,150 --> 01:26:21,370
30th on this show so stay tuned for that

2106
01:26:27,870 --> 01:26:24,160
Omar in PJ are going to be on along with

2107
01:26:29,790 --> 01:26:27,880
Dave Beatty so we have another caller we

2108
01:26:31,470 --> 01:26:29,800
can hear him in the background

2109
01:26:36,150 --> 01:26:31,480
caller where you calling from your first

2110
01:26:39,330 --> 01:26:36,160
name this is Joe hi Joe where are you

2111
01:26:41,310 --> 01:26:39,340
calling from I'm in Sarasota Florida Oh

2112
01:26:44,550 --> 01:26:41,320
beautiful place I was there just a few

2113
01:26:47,490 --> 01:26:44,560
weeks ago very nice area so you got a

2114
01:26:49,590 --> 01:26:47,500
question for our guest well first I want

2115
01:26:51,300 --> 01:26:49,600
to say that both of you guys and very

2116
01:26:53,790 --> 01:26:51,310
impressed with what you do and I'm very

2117
01:26:59,190 --> 01:26:53,800
thankful for what you're doing in

2118
01:27:02,630 --> 01:26:59,200
particular with John I'm really

2119
01:27:05,340 --> 01:27:02,640
frustrated I'm frustrated for John and

2120
01:27:08,670 --> 01:27:05,350
frustrating the frustration

2121
01:27:11,730 --> 01:27:08,680
looks like this all the big names in the

2122
01:27:14,220 --> 01:27:11,740
UFO community from Richard Dolan grant

2123
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:14,230
Cameron Jimmy Church

2124
01:27:20,190 --> 01:27:16,570
you name it go down the list of the top

2125
01:27:23,010 --> 01:27:20,200
10 the top 12 I think all of them and

2126
01:27:25,620 --> 01:27:23,020
all of us the larger community are going

2127
01:27:28,430 --> 01:27:25,630
to be in the same place a year or two

2128
01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:28,440
from now when it comes to a tip

2129
01:27:34,410 --> 01:27:31,450
basically all just looking at it and

2130
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:34,420
saying calling it for what it is which

2131
01:27:44,310 --> 01:27:39,250
is it's clearly enough it's an operation

2132
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:44,320
that was clear quiet to the New York

2133
01:27:49,740 --> 01:27:46,930
Times article let me explain why I say

2134
01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:49,750
that and I believe that John understands

2135
01:27:51,930 --> 01:27:51,370
why they I say that but let me clarify

2136
01:27:57,420 --> 01:27:51,940
it

2137
01:28:01,950 --> 01:27:57,430
we heard Tom belong four months before

2138
01:28:05,820 --> 01:28:01,960
October 2017 telling us how many

2139
01:28:09,500 --> 01:28:05,830
meetings he had in vacuum-sealed quiet

2140
01:28:12,780 --> 01:28:09,510
rooms with Defense Intelligence and

2141
01:28:15,090 --> 01:28:12,790
Pentagon operators we heard him

2142
01:28:17,580 --> 01:28:15,100
virtually every other week on a

2143
01:28:21,900 --> 01:28:17,590
different show telling us about those

2144
01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:21,910
meetings this is six months before

2145
01:28:30,930 --> 01:28:27,280
Louise Elizondo went through his process

2146
01:28:33,900 --> 01:28:30,940
of staining quitting staining retirement

2147
01:28:37,290 --> 01:28:33,910
whatever that was point being you know

2148
01:28:40,340 --> 01:28:37,300
that list of 10 people that certainly

2149
01:28:43,650 --> 01:28:40,350
includes both of you guys Alejandro

2150
01:28:46,380 --> 01:28:43,660
we're all going to be in the same place

2151
01:28:48,900 --> 01:28:46,390
a year or two from now we all we all can

2152
01:28:51,630 --> 01:28:48,910
see it we're gonna look back at this and

2153
01:28:55,380 --> 01:28:51,640
say that this is just an operation

2154
01:28:57,780 --> 01:28:55,390
another operation so what I'd like to

2155
01:29:00,750 --> 01:28:57,790
see and I think John is really at the

2156
01:29:03,330 --> 01:29:00,760
forefront of this but I don't see why

2157
01:29:06,060 --> 01:29:03,340
everyone else isn't lining up to be in

2158
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:06,070
the same position that John is right now

2159
01:29:10,350 --> 01:29:08,170
and there are a couple that are getting

2160
01:29:12,780 --> 01:29:10,360
there like Jimmy Church is getting close

2161
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:12,790
to being fed up with Louise Elizondo

2162
01:29:19,020 --> 01:29:16,810
story and there are others but it seems

2163
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:19,030
that enough to me enough time is

2164
01:29:27,780 --> 01:29:22,000
yes that all the major players looking

2165
01:29:29,580 --> 01:29:27,790
at this should be to that point I don't

2166
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:29,590
want other thing I'll add one let me

2167
01:29:33,450 --> 01:29:30,730
have one of the things that you just

2168
01:29:36,570 --> 01:29:33,460
mentioned Martin that leads me to that

2169
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:36,580
conclusion about the the Nimitz people

2170
01:29:42,300 --> 01:29:39,010
coming out when have you ever seen

2171
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:42,310
anything like this with half a dozen to

2172
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:46,570
a dozen guys from half a dozen different

2173
01:29:53,340 --> 01:29:51,280
shifts on an operation being free freely

2174
01:29:55,500 --> 01:29:53,350
speaking about this one particular

2175
01:29:58,230 --> 01:29:55,510
incident when have you ever seen

2176
01:30:01,770 --> 01:29:58,240
anything like that okay

2177
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:01,780
go ahead yeah no on your last point yeah

2178
01:30:06,330 --> 01:30:04,530
I think that the Nimitz case again

2179
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:06,340
reinforcing what I already said is

2180
01:30:11,370 --> 01:30:09,610
something to look into I think at the

2181
01:30:13,650 --> 01:30:11,380
end of the day I wish it wasn't so

2182
01:30:16,290 --> 01:30:13,660
connected with to the Stars Academy and

2183
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:16,300
and quote-unquote that the a tip story

2184
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:18,970
just because I believe it deserves to

2185
01:30:23,820 --> 01:30:21,130
stand on its own and I believe that the

2186
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:23,830
public should definitely look at it in

2187
01:30:28,440 --> 01:30:26,050
regards to the UFO community as a whole

2188
01:30:30,870 --> 01:30:28,450
I don't I don't want to name names but I

2189
01:30:33,630 --> 01:30:30,880
also don't want to say that everybody is

2190
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:33,640
is just who wrought ETS a and a tip and

2191
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:36,130
this is it proof of disclosure and this

2192
01:30:39,420 --> 01:30:37,810
and that I think that there are a lot of

2193
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:39,430
people that are asking important

2194
01:30:42,870 --> 01:30:39,970
questions

2195
01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:42,880
I'm just loud about it you know I and

2196
01:30:47,910 --> 01:30:44,650
the reason why I'm loud about it is I do

2197
01:30:49,410 --> 01:30:47,920
fear again that that repercussion if it

2198
01:30:51,780 --> 01:30:49,420
does turn out to be something that it's

2199
01:30:54,750 --> 01:30:51,790
not but the other part of me is that the

2200
01:30:56,310 --> 01:30:54,760
this goes to the core of the basic

2201
01:30:59,370 --> 01:30:56,320
fundamentals of what research and

2202
01:31:01,170 --> 01:30:59,380
investigation really is and again I'm

2203
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:01,180
not picking on journalists but I have

2204
01:31:04,440 --> 01:31:02,770
been known to say here in the last month

2205
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:04,450
and I've gotten some heat caught some

2206
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:06,250
heat for it is that there's a

2207
01:31:11,730 --> 01:31:09,250
journalistic standard that in my opinion

2208
01:31:14,010 --> 01:31:11,740
has gone out the window when it comes to

2209
01:31:17,850 --> 01:31:14,020
reporting on a tip now that's not me

2210
01:31:20,730 --> 01:31:17,860
basing in an opinion that's me stating a

2211
01:31:22,620 --> 01:31:20,740
fact and why I say that is if you look

2212
01:31:25,440 --> 01:31:22,630
at the timeline with the sources of the

2213
01:31:27,450 --> 01:31:25,450
key players involved journalists should

2214
01:31:30,030 --> 01:31:27,460
be asking why does doctor help odd off

2215
01:31:31,470 --> 01:31:30,040
say one thing mr. Elizondo says another

2216
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:31,480
why is that

2217
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:33,250
why are

2218
01:31:38,820 --> 01:31:35,170
these discrepancies as reported by the

2219
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:38,830
media why do they exist and no one is

2220
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:41,530
asking those questions the 2007 versus

2221
01:31:45,270 --> 01:31:42,850
2008 start date

2222
01:31:48,270 --> 01:31:45,280
that sounds irrelevant probably to some

2223
01:31:50,700 --> 01:31:48,280
people but to an investigator trying to

2224
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:50,710
piece together the puzzle that becomes

2225
01:31:55,380 --> 01:31:52,930
incredibly important it becomes

2226
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:55,390
incredibly important because it ties in

2227
01:32:00,120 --> 01:31:57,610
to the private contractor that got the

2228
01:32:02,550 --> 01:32:00,130
bid it ties into how much foreknowledge

2229
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:02,560
was there for them to bid on it

2230
01:32:07,590 --> 01:32:04,690
here's another tidbit that is officially

2231
01:32:10,230 --> 01:32:07,600
documented that at this point is not

2232
01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:10,240
disputed and that is the fact that there

2233
01:32:16,500 --> 01:32:13,450
was only one bidder on the AUSA

2234
01:32:19,260 --> 01:32:16,510
contract when it was posted only one now

2235
01:32:22,170 --> 01:32:19,270
we know our SAP led into a tip so that

2236
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:22,180
is important because in this day and age

2237
01:32:27,780 --> 01:32:24,370
even in 2008 when the bid solicitation

2238
01:32:29,310 --> 01:32:27,790
was was posted in the corporate hang-on

2239
01:32:31,890 --> 01:32:29,320
job just hold that thought just one

2240
01:32:34,230 --> 01:32:31,900
second so call when people call into the

2241
01:32:36,180 --> 01:32:34,240
show make sure you mute your computer or

2242
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:36,190
whatever it is we have a caller that

2243
01:32:41,820 --> 01:32:39,250
just called in please mute and sorry

2244
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:41,830
about that junk continue no that's okay

2245
01:32:45,450 --> 01:32:43,690
but it becomes a crucial to

2246
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:45,460
understanding you know that that that

2247
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:47,770
part of the story with the government

2248
01:32:51,870 --> 01:32:49,410
contractor and how he got the bid in

2249
01:32:54,150 --> 01:32:51,880
2008 in the corporate environment even

2250
01:32:55,290 --> 01:32:54,160
then it's incredibly cutthroat for

2251
01:32:57,450 --> 01:32:55,300
government contracts because you're

2252
01:32:59,610 --> 01:32:57,460
talking about millions and millions of

2253
01:33:01,320 --> 01:32:59,620
dollars as reported by the New York

2254
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:01,330
Times it was twenty two million dollars

2255
01:33:06,750 --> 01:33:04,930
as reported by George nappa klas it

2256
01:33:09,510 --> 01:33:06,760
started at 10 million we don't know if

2257
01:33:11,790 --> 01:33:09,520
there was an additional 12 million but

2258
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:11,800
he showed a screenshot of 10 million so

2259
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:12,970
we're talking about millions and

2260
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:14,530
millions of dollars bottom line

2261
01:33:18,750 --> 01:33:17,170
how could there only be one bidder like

2262
01:33:21,690 --> 01:33:18,760
that doesn't make sense to me at all

2263
01:33:23,430 --> 01:33:21,700
like the sweetheart like you said well I

2264
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:23,440
don't want to make the accusation but we

2265
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:25,450
have to look at that as and again I'm

2266
01:33:29,430 --> 01:33:27,010
beating a dead horse but as a researcher

2267
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:29,440
you have to take all of the

2268
01:33:33,300 --> 01:33:31,810
possibilities then look at the evidence

2269
01:33:36,480 --> 01:33:33,310
and start scratching them off the list

2270
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:36,490
if you go into researching something or

2271
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:38,170
reporting on something either way and

2272
01:33:43,980 --> 01:33:41,410
you have a bottom line conclusion

2273
01:33:47,010 --> 01:33:43,990
already or you go in with a slant that

2274
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:47,020
well eight tips a UFO reporting program

2275
01:33:51,150 --> 01:33:49,210
what what evidence do we have we have

2276
01:33:52,830 --> 01:33:51,160
mr. Elizondo that that's fine that's a

2277
01:33:54,690 --> 01:33:52,840
great source the problem is he

2278
01:33:57,300 --> 01:33:54,700
contradicts himself that's not me being

2279
01:33:59,250 --> 01:33:57,310
mean about it that's me using what he

2280
01:34:01,860 --> 01:33:59,260
has said and putting it on a timeline in

2281
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:01,870
it's contradictory when you look at all

2282
01:34:05,940 --> 01:34:04,090
of that in the bigger picture I go back

2283
01:34:08,310 --> 01:34:05,950
to that journalistic journalistic

2284
01:34:10,950 --> 01:34:08,320
standard that has gone out the window we

2285
01:34:13,650 --> 01:34:10,960
need to push those hard questions to

2286
01:34:15,810 --> 01:34:13,660
answer these red flags they may have

2287
01:34:16,710 --> 01:34:15,820
easy answers I've tried to stress that a

2288
01:34:18,660 --> 01:34:16,720
million times

2289
01:34:21,090 --> 01:34:18,670
I have tried to reach out to mr.

2290
01:34:22,830 --> 01:34:21,100
Elizondo officially to the stars Academy

2291
01:34:25,500 --> 01:34:22,840
won't let me talk to him yeah it was

2292
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:25,510
over four months that I had reached out

2293
01:34:31,010 --> 01:34:28,690
and getting kind of the the brush-off so

2294
01:34:33,660 --> 01:34:31,020
to speak and they finally said no I

2295
01:34:36,360 --> 01:34:33,670
whether or not they want to the tough

2296
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:36,370
questions whether they want to address

2297
01:34:40,110 --> 01:34:38,410
some of these things because it's not

2298
01:34:42,300 --> 01:34:40,120
going to be classified plain and simple

2299
01:34:44,730 --> 01:34:42,310
I do I do not believe that the red flags

2300
01:34:47,460 --> 01:34:44,740
that I have brought up are classified I

2301
01:34:49,440 --> 01:34:47,470
know you have a caller Martin but I I do

2302
01:34:51,210 --> 01:34:49,450
before the end want to address what's

2303
01:34:53,910 --> 01:34:51,220
what people have largely called it's

2304
01:34:56,460 --> 01:34:53,920
FOIA exempt which is also what mr.

2305
01:34:59,400 --> 01:34:56,470
Elizondo has said as a I'll call it an

2306
01:35:01,410 --> 01:34:59,410
excuse on why we won't see the important

2307
01:35:03,210 --> 01:35:01,420
information I definitely think that that

2308
01:35:04,530 --> 01:35:03,220
deserves a little bit of time but I know

2309
01:35:06,090 --> 01:35:04,540
you got a caller so I don't want to keep

2310
01:35:09,690 --> 01:35:06,100
you from it oh well just go back to that

2311
01:35:11,670 --> 01:35:09,700
so we thank you caller and what do have

2312
01:35:12,480 --> 01:35:11,680
we do have a new caller on the line were

2313
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:12,490
you calling from

2314
01:35:19,490 --> 01:35:17,050
and your name please first name um are

2315
01:35:23,070 --> 01:35:19,500
you talking to me I'm talking to you

2316
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:23,080
okay that's great this is Barbara I'm in

2317
01:35:27,570 --> 01:35:25,810
West Hollywood California and I'm loving

2318
01:35:32,700 --> 01:35:27,580
listening to your program and I have a

2319
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:32,710
kind of a dumb question I've never tried

2320
01:35:39,750 --> 01:35:35,890
to get it for you document but I'm

2321
01:35:42,510 --> 01:35:39,760
always amazed at well the government

2322
01:35:47,430 --> 01:35:42,520
surface or the government so fess so I'm

2323
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:47,440
curious when you call in for a FOIA

2324
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:50,410
request or you email for a Koya request

2325
01:35:58,500 --> 01:35:53,530
do you ever talk to a human being or is

2326
01:36:00,660 --> 01:35:58,510
it always a robot it how do you ever

2327
01:36:03,690 --> 01:36:00,670
have conversations

2328
01:36:06,390 --> 01:36:03,700
human beings yeah because it seems to me

2329
01:36:09,090 --> 01:36:06,400
we're robotic it's a great question to

2330
01:36:10,710 --> 01:36:09,100
ask yeah so that the basic principles of

2331
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:10,720
the Freedom of Information Act as you do

2332
01:36:15,090 --> 01:36:12,850
request in writing

2333
01:36:17,060 --> 01:36:15,100
depends on the agency some are via email

2334
01:36:20,700 --> 01:36:17,070
some are postal mail some are online

2335
01:36:23,670 --> 01:36:20,710
after the case has been created most

2336
01:36:25,950 --> 01:36:23,680
agencies have a FOIA team sometimes

2337
01:36:27,810 --> 01:36:25,960
they're very small teams other times

2338
01:36:30,090 --> 01:36:27,820
they're a little bit larger but there

2339
01:36:31,410 --> 01:36:30,100
are humans and it's a great question

2340
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:31,420
that you bring up and it's a point that

2341
01:36:35,370 --> 01:36:32,770
I always like making because a lot of

2342
01:36:36,780 --> 01:36:35,380
people forget that yes the big bad evil

2343
01:36:39,510 --> 01:36:36,790
government that lies to you all the time

2344
01:36:42,570 --> 01:36:39,520
there are humans behind it they they are

2345
01:36:44,550 --> 01:36:42,580
trying to do the best that they can do

2346
01:36:47,310 --> 01:36:44,560
that sometimes it's not necessarily a

2347
01:36:50,310 --> 01:36:47,320
cover-up or intentional misleading of

2348
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:50,320
the public sometimes it's just downright

2349
01:36:54,030 --> 01:36:52,930
- a human error there's problems that

2350
01:36:55,770 --> 01:36:54,040
come along with it but that's a

2351
01:36:58,500 --> 01:36:55,780
different discussion so I've always

2352
01:37:02,640 --> 01:36:58,510
tried to maintain a relationship a

2353
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:02,650
friendship even because I do sympathise

2354
01:37:05,910 --> 01:37:04,090
with everything that they have to deal

2355
01:37:08,430 --> 01:37:05,920
with but to go back to your question

2356
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:08,440
yeah you do talk to people there are

2357
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:11,290
humans on the other side and most of the

2358
01:37:16,260 --> 01:37:13,330
time they're very interested in helping

2359
01:37:18,030 --> 01:37:16,270
you that they're not just Barbara you've

2360
01:37:20,130 --> 01:37:18,040
got to go away go back to Northwest

2361
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:20,140
Hollywood you know it's not about that

2362
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:21,850
it's about that they want to do their

2363
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:23,410
job and do it right and sometimes they

2364
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:24,850
have questions they'll pick up the phone

2365
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:26,770
they'll call me they'll call you

2366
01:37:31,620 --> 01:37:29,050
whatever it is and they're just humans

2367
01:37:32,790 --> 01:37:31,630
just like you me and Martin and and

2368
01:37:35,580 --> 01:37:32,800
that's what I always like to point out

2369
01:37:37,380 --> 01:37:35,590
sometimes they're not so nice and that

2370
01:37:39,780 --> 01:37:37,390
is not fun to have to deal with certain

2371
01:37:41,310 --> 01:37:39,790
agencies when they have people that are

2372
01:37:43,530 --> 01:37:41,320
very annoyed when they see John

2373
01:37:45,540 --> 01:37:43,540
Greenwald pop up in their mailbox so

2374
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:45,550
there are bad times but yeah there's

2375
01:37:49,890 --> 01:37:47,050
there's humans on the other side and

2376
01:37:51,180 --> 01:37:49,900
there's a lot of human interaction to

2377
01:37:53,850 --> 01:37:51,190
close the thought though I will say

2378
01:37:55,410 --> 01:37:53,860
sometimes with some agencies it is like

2379
01:37:57,330 --> 01:37:55,420
you're talking to a robot that cannot

2380
01:37:59,730 --> 01:37:57,340
think for itself and you get these form

2381
01:38:01,440 --> 01:37:59,740
letter responses not all the time but

2382
01:38:01,890 --> 01:38:01,450
sometimes and you just want to pull your

2383
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:01,900
hair out

2384
01:38:08,490 --> 01:38:05,530
you really do yeah I don't that's great

2385
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:08,500
thank you so much I'm I'm really shocked

2386
01:38:13,209 --> 01:38:10,570
that you actually have conversations

2387
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:13,219
with human beings yeah

2388
01:38:18,790 --> 01:38:15,290
it's just so appreciate the question is

2389
01:38:21,400 --> 01:38:18,800
this barbara h molested an i Barbara

2390
01:38:23,709 --> 01:38:21,410
that we get hi eunuch eight via email

2391
01:38:25,150 --> 01:38:23,719
all right I have a bunch of people

2392
01:38:28,750 --> 01:38:25,160
trying to call in so thank you so much

2393
01:38:31,060 --> 01:38:28,760
how that all hang up thanks all right we

2394
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:31,070
have a new caller on the line your first

2395
01:38:36,250 --> 01:38:33,730
name and where you're calling from

2396
01:38:39,250 --> 01:38:36,260
caller yeah this is Adam from New York

2397
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:39,260
hi Adam how are you hey Adam hi how you

2398
01:38:43,060 --> 01:38:39,890
doing

2399
01:38:44,860 --> 01:38:43,070
got a question for our guest yeah I did

2400
01:38:46,630 --> 01:38:44,870
have a question I heard you guys talking

2401
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:46,640
about TTS a and I don't want to relate

2402
01:38:54,220 --> 01:38:51,530
this back to the 2017 December New York

2403
01:38:55,900 --> 01:38:54,230
Times political Washington Post I

2404
01:38:58,120 --> 01:38:55,910
believe it was articles again but I just

2405
01:38:59,680 --> 01:38:58,130
want to ask John Lloyd was on the phone

2406
01:39:01,240 --> 01:38:59,690
I was speaking with my lawyer over the

2407
01:39:04,060 --> 01:39:01,250
weekend doing some work at his house I

2408
01:39:05,950 --> 01:39:04,070
couldn't realize how many on people

2409
01:39:07,930 --> 01:39:05,960
don't know about this story and I was

2410
01:39:09,070 --> 01:39:07,940
talking him about an and he looked at me

2411
01:39:12,490 --> 01:39:09,080
like I had three heads

2412
01:39:14,080 --> 01:39:12,500
now I in this story itself um it didn't

2413
01:39:16,660 --> 01:39:14,090
say anything extravagant it's talking

2414
01:39:19,270 --> 01:39:16,670
about twenty two million dollar fundage

2415
01:39:21,270 --> 01:39:19,280
for this program ah by Harry Reid for

2416
01:39:23,950 --> 01:39:21,280
the government to look into this things

2417
01:39:26,950 --> 01:39:23,960
and I explained to him you know from

2418
01:39:28,660 --> 01:39:26,960
from his standpoint of a regular person

2419
01:39:31,390 --> 01:39:28,670
not interested in this topic is this all

2420
01:39:34,150 --> 01:39:31,400
just disinformation or misinformation

2421
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:34,160
I know this might be a generic question

2422
01:39:39,250 --> 01:39:36,560
but I'm just looking at as from a point

2423
01:39:40,900 --> 01:39:39,260
of I posted this topic many times that

2424
01:39:42,459 --> 01:39:40,910
I've tried to kind of get it some

2425
01:39:44,290 --> 01:39:42,469
traction to see if our to get more

2426
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:44,300
regular people looking into the subject

2427
01:39:50,530 --> 01:39:47,690
and that's all saying I'm just wondering

2428
01:39:52,510 --> 01:39:50,540
if it's disinformation and why it's not

2429
01:39:55,780 --> 01:39:52,520
really getting going the greater

2430
01:39:57,910 --> 01:39:55,790
interest of log of the the public in

2431
01:39:59,530 --> 01:39:57,920
general it seems or maybe them are maybe

2432
01:40:02,439 --> 01:39:59,540
that's just what I'm seeing for my

2433
01:40:03,670 --> 01:40:02,449
sphere of law of influence Bush for me

2434
01:40:06,430 --> 01:40:03,680
it seems like it should be a bigger

2435
01:40:08,140 --> 01:40:06,440
story and with that I'll let you guys go

2436
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:08,150
I'll stay on the line and see what he

2437
01:40:12,370 --> 01:40:10,730
thinks about that yeah I appreciate the

2438
01:40:15,790 --> 01:40:12,380
question it's hard for me to pinpoint

2439
01:40:18,790 --> 01:40:15,800
what the conclusion is meaning what is

2440
01:40:20,590 --> 01:40:18,800
the intent here is it disinformation is

2441
01:40:22,900 --> 01:40:20,600
it just people that are a little bit

2442
01:40:26,620 --> 01:40:22,910
careless with the facts is this

2443
01:40:28,530 --> 01:40:26,630
embellishment I I really don't know

2444
01:40:31,390 --> 01:40:28,540
i-i think it deserves a lot more

2445
01:40:34,150 --> 01:40:31,400
attention and i think that it deserves

2446
01:40:36,220 --> 01:40:34,160
addressing not only because i'm being

2447
01:40:38,170 --> 01:40:36,230
noisy about it and want to know but I

2448
01:40:40,540 --> 01:40:38,180
think the UFO community and I think the

2449
01:40:41,980 --> 01:40:40,550
general public deserves to know why your

2450
01:40:44,170 --> 01:40:41,990
attorney probably hasn't heard about it

2451
01:40:46,390 --> 01:40:44,180
is we're well over a year now the New

2452
01:40:50,190 --> 01:40:46,400
York Times front page story it was an

2453
01:40:52,690 --> 01:40:50,200
amazing show of attention worldwide

2454
01:40:55,780 --> 01:40:52,700
right there's no doubt about it in

2455
01:40:58,840 --> 01:40:55,790
December of 2017 that there was a ton of

2456
01:41:02,860 --> 01:40:58,850
publicity what has happened since then

2457
01:41:04,930 --> 01:41:02,870
in my opinion not much and I think that

2458
01:41:08,290 --> 01:41:04,940
in the grander course of trying to

2459
01:41:11,290 --> 01:41:08,300
educate the public on this is a tip it

2460
01:41:13,300 --> 01:41:11,300
was a secret Pentagon UFO study there's

2461
01:41:14,830 --> 01:41:13,310
a lot of stuff that we need to push and

2462
01:41:17,470 --> 01:41:14,840
let's get answers let's get answers I

2463
01:41:19,570 --> 01:41:17,480
know that that takes time but I think

2464
01:41:21,850 --> 01:41:19,580
that you need to hold on to that go that

2465
01:41:24,940 --> 01:41:21,860
that public interest that you need to

2466
01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:24,950
continue to come out it's a whole show

2467
01:41:29,380 --> 01:41:27,050
in itself but I'm not sure if a History

2468
01:41:31,300 --> 01:41:29,390
Channel show is the right answer because

2469
01:41:34,450 --> 01:41:31,310
you're taking away from the newsworthy

2470
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:34,460
aspect and putting it onto a network

2471
01:41:40,420 --> 01:41:37,970
show more known for reality type UFO or

2472
01:41:40,780 --> 01:41:40,430
programs now all right I want to stay up

2473
01:41:42,790 --> 01:41:40,790
front

2474
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:42,800
I am a television producer I have worked

2475
01:41:50,230 --> 01:41:45,290
for ane networks quite a bit I have

2476
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:50,240
produced on History Channel I have no no

2477
01:41:56,200 --> 01:41:52,970
negative feelings about this this is

2478
01:41:59,080 --> 01:41:56,210
entertainment and I think with that I'll

2479
01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:59,090
say it again it's entertainment you take

2480
01:42:02,620 --> 01:42:01,280
away from the newsworthy aspect of it

2481
01:42:05,650 --> 01:42:02,630
and you're putting it on a network

2482
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:05,660
that's interested in entertainment and I

2483
01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:07,610
think that that is probably not the

2484
01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:09,890
right approach so now what happened as a

2485
01:42:11,950 --> 01:42:10,370
result

2486
01:42:13,510 --> 01:42:11,960
well we haven't heard much of anything

2487
01:42:15,730 --> 01:42:13,520
because they're planning this television

2488
01:42:17,590 --> 01:42:15,740
show on the History Channel well right

2489
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:17,600
not everybody has the History Channel

2490
01:42:21,220 --> 01:42:19,250
that's right everybody cares to watch

2491
01:42:23,170 --> 01:42:21,230
The History Channel exactly and on top

2492
01:42:25,390 --> 01:42:23,180
of that it doesn't go worldwide like it

2493
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:25,400
does in December of 2017 on the History

2494
01:42:28,330 --> 01:42:25,730
Channel

2495
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:28,340
exactly so all of that is a problematic

2496
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:30,530
approach to something that should be

2497
01:42:35,830 --> 01:42:32,810
more newsworthy to where your lawyer

2498
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:35,840
says oh yeah I saw CNN or Fox News or

2499
01:42:40,149 --> 01:42:38,570
MSNBC to a story doing a follow-up story

2500
01:42:42,459 --> 01:42:40,159
last Friday yeah no that

2501
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:42,469
that's really cool of XYZ but we're not

2502
01:42:47,799 --> 01:42:44,449
saying that you know we're seeing a very

2503
01:42:49,689 --> 01:42:47,809
minimal coverage now and I just want to

2504
01:42:51,370 --> 01:42:49,699
add the thing about my lawyer is he's an

2505
01:42:53,589 --> 01:42:51,380
ex-marine and he actually had some

2506
01:42:55,209 --> 01:42:53,599
clearances it was have often

2507
01:42:57,159 --> 01:42:55,219
intelligence and that's why I want to

2508
01:42:59,679 --> 01:42:57,169
get his reaction on it because he is

2509
01:43:02,049 --> 01:42:59,689
ex-military was in the Marines I'm not

2510
01:43:03,819 --> 01:43:02,059
sure I have to check his right but I

2511
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:03,829
know he's pretty high up I know he ended

2512
01:43:07,569 --> 01:43:05,570
up doing some intelligence stuff there

2513
01:43:11,990 --> 01:43:07,579
that's why I want to see his reaction on

2514
01:43:17,219 --> 01:43:12,000
it yeah you know I mean interesting

2515
01:43:22,870 --> 01:43:21,219
interest I've gotta go on your site

2516
01:43:24,790 --> 01:43:22,880
sometime and dig through all the stuff I

2517
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:24,800
appreciate all the work you do and thank

2518
01:43:32,049 --> 01:43:27,130
you very much out hard for your show

2519
01:43:33,729 --> 01:43:32,059
sure very much thank you John so we have

2520
01:43:35,979 --> 01:43:33,739
the last that's the last phone call I'm

2521
01:43:38,830 --> 01:43:35,989
gonna take sure that caller is online

2522
01:43:40,149 --> 01:43:38,840
thanks again Adam caller your first name

2523
01:43:42,549 --> 01:43:40,159
and where are you calling from

2524
01:43:44,649 --> 01:43:42,559
I've even from Oregon can you hear me

2525
01:43:47,020 --> 01:43:44,659
okay hi Steven yes thank you for the

2526
01:43:48,759 --> 01:43:47,030
call you have a question yeah just a

2527
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:48,769
quick one Jonathan something I've never

2528
01:43:55,029 --> 01:43:51,530
heard before a minute ago he said DoD

2529
01:43:57,040 --> 01:43:55,039
denied releasing those videos or the

2530
01:43:59,169 --> 01:43:57,050
government denied releasing the videos

2531
01:44:01,419 --> 01:43:59,179
yes sir and I have never heard that

2532
01:44:03,429 --> 01:44:01,429
before could you could you just dig into

2533
01:44:06,279 --> 01:44:03,439
that a little bit and absolutely that

2534
01:44:07,799 --> 01:44:06,289
out yeah so I work directly with the

2535
01:44:10,029 --> 01:44:07,809
public affairs office at the Pentagon

2536
01:44:11,949 --> 01:44:10,039
specifically the Department of Defense

2537
01:44:15,219 --> 01:44:11,959
through the office of the Secretary of

2538
01:44:17,379 --> 01:44:15,229
Defense I was told by a major her rank

2539
01:44:21,879 --> 01:44:17,389
was major audrey xie harris this was

2540
01:44:23,529 --> 01:44:21,889
also said by other personnel at the

2541
01:44:25,540 --> 01:44:23,539
public affairs office but i will only

2542
01:44:28,569 --> 01:44:25,550
speak for what I was told personally in

2543
01:44:30,100 --> 01:44:28,579
writing so as an it was also told me to

2544
01:44:32,049 --> 01:44:30,110
me on the telephone but I also made sure

2545
01:44:33,399 --> 01:44:32,059
that I got everything in writing that

2546
01:44:35,770 --> 01:44:33,409
way that there was a paper trail and

2547
01:44:37,689 --> 01:44:35,780
they denied that they ever released

2548
01:44:40,390 --> 01:44:37,699
those videos no component of the

2549
01:44:42,489 --> 01:44:40,400
Department of Defense now for any of

2550
01:44:45,580 --> 01:44:42,499
those that don't know the Defense

2551
01:44:49,089 --> 01:44:45,590
Intelligence Agency is known to be the

2552
01:44:51,689 --> 01:44:49,099
original agency that housed a tip so to

2553
01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:51,699
speak so a tip was one through DIA in

2554
01:44:56,620 --> 01:44:54,290
2010 as confirmed by no

2555
01:45:00,610 --> 01:44:56,630
mr. Lewis Elizondo but also the DIA

2556
01:45:05,170 --> 01:45:00,620
itself it was transferred out of the DIA

2557
01:45:06,970 --> 01:45:05,180
in 2010 over to OSD DIA never said OSD

2558
01:45:09,220 --> 01:45:06,980
but we can kind of deduce that because

2559
01:45:10,720 --> 01:45:09,230
that's where mr. Elizondo worked the

2560
01:45:13,630 --> 01:45:10,730
Pentagon is pretty much confirmed it was

2561
01:45:16,090 --> 01:45:13,640
a did to confirm it was a real program

2562
01:45:18,700 --> 01:45:16,100
the question mark though is what do they

2563
01:45:20,860 --> 01:45:18,710
mean by they never released these videos

2564
01:45:22,570 --> 01:45:20,870
mr. Elizondo had said that they went

2565
01:45:25,990 --> 01:45:22,580
through what's called a doppler process

2566
01:45:27,580 --> 01:45:26,000
DOP SR now this is a review process

2567
01:45:31,270 --> 01:45:27,590
outside of the Freedom of Information

2568
01:45:34,990 --> 01:45:31,280
Act but it allows for the Department to

2569
01:45:38,170 --> 01:45:35,000
clear either textual or video or

2570
01:45:41,740 --> 01:45:38,180
photographic documents for release to

2571
01:45:44,200 --> 01:45:41,750
the public what the DoD told me through

2572
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:44,210
the Pentagon was that even though a

2573
01:45:50,290 --> 01:45:47,930
Doppler process is completed that does

2574
01:45:53,230 --> 01:45:50,300
not authorize anything for public

2575
01:45:55,450 --> 01:45:53,240
release it sounded like there is another

2576
01:45:58,450 --> 01:45:55,460
step to go through that was not gone

2577
01:46:00,130 --> 01:45:58,460
through for these videos so at this

2578
01:46:02,140 --> 01:46:00,140
point they maintained that they never

2579
01:46:05,770 --> 01:46:02,150
released them does that mean that

2580
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:05,780
they're fake not necessarily I've said a

2581
01:46:12,670 --> 01:46:08,810
couple times now you know we need to get

2582
01:46:16,360 --> 01:46:12,680
an official version of what these videos

2583
01:46:18,280 --> 01:46:16,370
were in their raw form to make sure that

2584
01:46:22,240 --> 01:46:18,290
the audio is legitimate and to make sure

2585
01:46:23,890 --> 01:46:22,250
that we can see as much as we can see to

2586
01:46:26,050 --> 01:46:23,900
give a little bit more context of what

2587
01:46:28,180 --> 01:46:26,060
the videos are we know that they're

2588
01:46:30,250 --> 01:46:28,190
highly edited we know that because

2589
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:30,260
number one they're compressed and we

2590
01:46:33,810 --> 01:46:31,850
know that because mr. Elizondo said that

2591
01:46:36,610 --> 01:46:33,820
there is a high-definition version

2592
01:46:37,450 --> 01:46:36,620
that's a different red flag in itself

2593
01:46:39,850 --> 01:46:37,460
but he says that there's a

2594
01:46:42,220 --> 01:46:39,860
high-definition version which has yet to

2595
01:46:44,140 --> 01:46:42,230
be released but we also see the to the

2596
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:44,150
Stars Academy watermarks which means

2597
01:46:49,210 --> 01:46:45,890
that they edited the video in some way

2598
01:46:51,310 --> 01:46:49,220
yes the audio well I have no reason to

2599
01:46:52,510 --> 01:46:51,320
believe it's fake but it's quite

2600
01:46:53,950 --> 01:46:52,520
interesting when you listen to the buy

2601
01:46:56,980 --> 01:46:53,960
of the pilots voices and what they're

2602
01:46:59,380 --> 01:46:56,990
saying to me that doesn't quite jive

2603
01:47:00,880 --> 01:46:59,390
with what they would say but I'm not

2604
01:47:02,320 --> 01:47:00,890
going to say it's fake I'm just saying

2605
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:02,330
there should be a little bit more

2606
01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:04,850
evidence to show that what we're looking

2607
01:47:08,169 --> 01:47:06,770
at truly is legitimate because to me I

2608
01:47:10,660 --> 01:47:08,179
think it needs to be address

2609
01:47:13,390 --> 01:47:10,670
that if mr. Elizondo said hey look the

2610
01:47:14,770 --> 01:47:13,400
DoD released these they'd Declassified

2611
01:47:16,450 --> 01:47:14,780
them these are the first I believe that

2612
01:47:18,669 --> 01:47:16,460
they term it the first officially

2613
01:47:23,160 --> 01:47:18,679
Declassified you know UFO videos or you

2614
01:47:25,360 --> 01:47:23,170
ap videos the media has reported that

2615
01:47:27,340 --> 01:47:25,370
crediting them to the Department of

2616
01:47:29,290 --> 01:47:27,350
Defense being officially Declassified

2617
01:47:31,510 --> 01:47:29,300
there's no evidence of that

2618
01:47:33,370 --> 01:47:31,520
and in fact it's quite the contrary and

2619
01:47:35,470 --> 01:47:33,380
it's not just because they said it to me

2620
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:35,480
they have gone on the record to other

2621
01:47:40,660 --> 01:47:38,690
outlets as well that have reported it I

2622
01:47:41,169 --> 01:47:40,670
believe Wired magazine but don't quote

2623
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:41,179
me on that

2624
01:47:45,729 --> 01:47:43,250
was one of them that did an expose on

2625
01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:45,739
this and said the DoD denied ever

2626
01:47:49,300 --> 01:47:47,690
releasing them so it is factual and

2627
01:47:55,080 --> 01:47:49,310
documented and it is something that the

2628
01:47:57,280 --> 01:47:55,090
DoD has confirmed we are really great

2629
01:47:59,169 --> 01:47:57,290
thanks thank you appreciate the call of

2630
01:48:01,780 --> 01:47:59,179
we're almost out of time already can you

2631
01:48:05,950 --> 01:48:01,790
believe it John yeah going back I just

2632
01:48:07,899 --> 01:48:05,960
said there I had a fighter pilot on the

2633
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:07,909
show and talked to him about that

2634
01:48:13,510 --> 01:48:10,370
particular you know video and he said

2635
01:48:15,970 --> 01:48:13,520
that the lingo and the you know the

2636
01:48:16,870 --> 01:48:15,980
banter back and forth he said he didn't

2637
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:16,880
have any problem with that

2638
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:19,250
he said yeah things are you know he said

2639
01:48:24,130 --> 01:48:20,810
things like that or said it's not

2640
01:48:26,380 --> 01:48:24,140
unusual and that's fine and that wasn't

2641
01:48:28,899 --> 01:48:26,390
my only red flag my question is we just

2642
01:48:31,090 --> 01:48:28,909
have to know that it's real when we get

2643
01:48:33,340 --> 01:48:31,100
a this is officially Declassified

2644
01:48:35,140 --> 01:48:33,350
version and then the other side is

2645
01:48:37,090 --> 01:48:35,150
saying hey we'd we never released it I

2646
01:48:38,890 --> 01:48:37,100
think that deserves addressing and if

2647
01:48:40,390 --> 01:48:38,900
the government's lying we'll tack it on

2648
01:48:42,100 --> 01:48:40,400
the list you know we've got a pretty big

2649
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:42,110
growing list of lies that we can prove

2650
01:48:45,510 --> 01:48:44,090
so that's what it is that's what it is

2651
01:48:47,890 --> 01:48:45,520
but I think that it deserves

2652
01:48:51,040 --> 01:48:47,900
definitely a closer look and figure out

2653
01:48:53,530 --> 01:48:51,050
what exactly is going on I think at one

2654
01:48:55,660 --> 01:48:53,540
point you're really driving home here

2655
01:48:58,000 --> 01:48:55,670
and I agree with you wholeheartedly is

2656
01:49:00,070 --> 01:48:58,010
the truth that's all we really want is

2657
01:49:02,229 --> 01:49:00,080
the truth yeah and that's the only way

2658
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:02,239
we're going to get anywhere and we have

2659
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:05,810
to be believable so I really appreciate

2660
01:49:09,669 --> 01:49:07,250
that a lot and it's been a real pleasure

2661
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:09,679
having you on the show finally yeah it's

2662
01:49:14,410 --> 01:49:11,449
my pleasure absolutely can't believe two

2663
01:49:16,149 --> 01:49:14,420
hours went by so fast yeah no absolutely

2664
01:49:18,010 --> 01:49:16,159
all right awesome

2665
01:49:20,379 --> 01:49:18,020
I don't know if you have time for that

2666
01:49:21,910 --> 01:49:20,389
for you exempt thing but I think you're

2667
01:49:23,770 --> 01:49:21,920
coming up to the end here I'm

2668
01:49:26,229 --> 01:49:23,780
right at the end actually so that you

2669
01:49:27,970 --> 01:49:26,239
say alright so just throw out the title

2670
01:49:30,040 --> 01:49:27,980
of your book one time and we'll have a

2671
01:49:32,470 --> 01:49:30,050
good night yeah yeah no problem title of

2672
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:32,480
the book is inside the black vault the

2673
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:34,730
government's UFO Secrets Revealed and

2674
01:49:38,890 --> 01:49:37,130
you could buy it at inside the black

2675
01:49:40,450 --> 01:49:38,900
vault calm or Amazon or any

2676
01:49:40,930 --> 01:49:40,460
brick-and-mortar store I hear it's

2677
01:49:42,790 --> 01:49:40,940
everywhere

2678
01:49:45,010 --> 01:49:42,800
excellent all right John thanks so much

2679
01:49:47,400 --> 01:49:45,020
you take care thank you um - thanks

2680
01:49:50,320 --> 01:49:47,410
again all right sure thing bye now

2681
01:49:55,330 --> 01:49:50,330
alright everyone so that is it for our

2682
01:49:57,310 --> 01:49:55,340
show and next week we have Jim Jim

2683
01:49:58,990 --> 01:49:57,320
Penniston on from the Rendlesham forest

2684
01:50:01,810 --> 01:49:59,000
incident that should be an interesting

2685
01:50:03,880 --> 01:50:01,820
show so stay tuned for that next week

2686
01:50:05,320 --> 01:50:03,890
same time and thanks so much for

2687
01:50:06,850 --> 01:50:05,330
listening I want to thank everyone that

2688
01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:06,860
helps out with the show and you the